Balanced Bites Podcast: Episode #27
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Check out the Paleo Summit here.
Check out the post by Jimmy Moore on low-carb antagonism in the Paleo community here.
March 3: Practical Paleo Seminar, Fairfield, NJ > register.
#1: Carbs, cortisol, thyroid – hot topics (from a breastfeeding mom) – also is caffeine reversing weight loss?
#2: Stating the word “chemicals” properly
#3: Tips for acne/breakouts
#4: Should I listen to my body, or not?
#5: Help for teeth grinding?
Click here to download the episode as an MP3.
The episodes are currently available in iTunes, Stitcher & Blog Talk Radio.
LIZ WOLFE: Hey everyone, I’m Liz Wolfe, here with Diane Sanfilippo of Balanced Bites. Welcome to episode 27, I think, of the Balanced Bites podcast. This is my one hour of productivity each week, so you know, everybody, strap in. I’ve got Real Housewives muted, my Facebook minimized, I’m ready to go. So I’ll begin with our little reminder that the materials and content contained in this podcast are for general information only, and are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Oh, and I did want to say, we were just talking about this, Diane, that your buddy Ben from MovNat and my Twitter buddy. He was working on some intro music for us, but because I can only do one thing at a time, and the last week and a half that one thing has been sitting on my ass, I haven’t made the time to actually put it up there. [laughs]
DIANE SANFILIPPO: What kind of female are you? Not multi-tasking. Fail. [laughs]
LIZ WOLFE: I am my husband’s worst nightmare. I’ll tell you that, for sure.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh my God.
LIZ WOLFE: Actually, you know what? We’ve basically been kind of enjoying his time back from overseas, so we’ve been traveling. I’m yet again podcasting from a hotel. We found an awesome gym to do a little front squatting today, which was awful, but definitely much needed. My front squat is pretty terrible, but it’s all right.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Nice. It sounds good. I did some back squats yesterday. My last day, I think I was in San Francisco for 4 days. It was so quick. It felt like about a minute. [laughs] I did some back squatting yesterday at like a 5 by 5 at my friend’s gym, and I’m so sore today. And I love it! I’m like, yes! I haven’t back squatted in so long.
LIZ WOLFE: I did Annie, the workout, Annie, like two weeks ago. And I feel like my abs are just now starting to feel normal again. I’ve been walking around like I was a ninja turtle stomach, it was all pooched out, like really firm like it was so kind of shield or something. I don’t know. I’ve been watching Spartacus on Netflix, so I feel like…I don’t know.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I probably didn’t…I probably didn’t work abs in CrossFit. I’m just kidding.
LIZ WOLFE: Oh God, don’t tell anybody.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, you and I haven’t actually talked in like a week. Like this is our…for anyone who’s listening, we’re actually kind of like raw, jumped into it. Didn’t even debrief at all beforehand. So you’re getting a completely raw conversation.
LIZ WOLFE: I debriefed, but not in the way you’re thinking.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, yeah. No.
LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh. Oh, Liz! All right. So…where are you? Are you on the East Coast somewhere? Same time zone?
LIZ WOLFE: I’m in the same time zone. I’m on the East Coast. I’m somewhere in Maryland. Not 100% sure where, but it’s a beautiful day outside, and I’m inside, so that’s pretty standard. I do have a couple fun stories for you, if you’re ready for them.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yes, tell me.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, anybody who tuned in hoping for some like health-related information, you can just turn it off right now.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs]
LIZ WOLFE: I’m just kidding. We’ll get to some good stuff. But uh…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay, you chat. I’ll eat my PaleoKit while you talk. Go ahead.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, yeah, do it. Okay, so we had like in-between traveling, we got to stop over and watch the University of Kansas/University of Missouri basketball game, which is like the biggest rivalry of all time, and now since those cowards are slinking away to the SEC, it was the last time we were actually going to have a Big 12 game in Lawrence, Kansas at Allen Fieldhouse. So that was pretty exciting. But anyway, so I don’t drink, you know, like all that often. It’s been like way too long since college, and that was kind of my fun, crazy days, but…so we went out to this bar slash restaurant Saturday afternoon to watch this game with some other alumni, and that was cool. And so I had a couple gluten-free beers, you know, and I’m enjoying these, you know, whatever they’re called. They’re actually pretty good. And I’m starting to feel, you know, like dancing. Like I’m feeling pretty happy. The game was super exciting, we won by one point at the very last minute in overtime, and it was amazing, and I was super happy. And just, you know, getting to that point between like shlockered and just like completely in the bucket. Not cool. And the whole time, I’ve been going on these gluten-free beers and it was going fine. And we were out with some friends, who I hadn’t seen in years and years and years. And of course, you know, I get handed a beer. And thinking it’s a gluten-free beer, right, so I’m like oh my gosh, this is delicious! This is the best beer I’ve ever had. You know, thinking I have to get some kind of endorsement deal with this new gluten-free beer I’ve never had before. I was like, wow, what is this? And James goes, my friend Ashley’s husband James…oh, it’s Bud Lite. And I was like, wow. Wow, that’s so sad that I, first of all, thought it tasted that good. A. And B. like I literally saw my life flash before my eyes when he told me that. Like oh my God, what is tomorrow going to look like?
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Wow. [laughs]
LIZ WOLFE: I’m going to be a freaking disaster. But I got to tell you, actually it wasn’t that bad, surprisingly. If this had been a year ago, it would have been bad. I probably would have, you know, been on the floor within 12 hours, like dermatitis outbreak, some craziness. But really, it wasn’t too bad, and I think, not that I’m not saying that gluten is okay by any means, but I am saying I think I have successfully done some pretty good healing of my digestive system, which enables me to process those toxins a little bit better, which I’m very happy about. Because I was looking forward-not looking forward to, you know, a miserable miserable day and possibly days after that, but..so that was kind of a pleasant surprise.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Wow.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So the real moral of this story is that Liz actually likes, what, Bud Lite? [laughs]
LIZ WOLFE: I’m saying Bud Lite. I really hope it wasn’t like Natty Light, or, you know, Hamm’s or something like that…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh my God.
LIZ WOLFE: PBR, maybe?
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I’ve been lucky. I’ve never really liked the taste of beer. I think, like, you know, kind of being too young drinking beer maybe a couple of times in high school, and just never never never liked the taste of it, like at all, so I think I’m really lucky. It’s one of those things, like I actually can’t understand people who are so sad to give up beer. Like the bread, I can understand, you know. Like I grew up on that, and potatoes and pasta, and I’m like, beer? That stuff’s disgusting. Like I never thought it was good, so…
LIZ WOLFE: It is pretty freaking bad. One of my favorite clients…actually the first time she and I met was like a year ago, and she goes, she was just looking at me like, I love beer. No, seriously, I love beer. Like dead freaking serious, totally serious. Like I can’t do this right now because I love beer so much. And now like down the line, she’s been one of my most successful clients. She’s doing amazingly well. She’s like, I can’t believe I ever even cared about beer.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Mm-hmm.
LIZ WOLFE: But, you know, once you give that stuff up and it’s like give yourself that chance to experiment in an alternate paradigm, it actually usually goes pretty well. It becomes easier than you think it’s going to be.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I ask people about bread often at the seminar. I’m like, hey, how many of you, you know, have a [xxx 7:51] with bread? Like a year or so, and you know, a bunch of people raise their hand and then…I’m like still eating the PaleoKit…[laughs] And then I ask them like, how many of you, you know, like don’t really care about it anymore? And it’s all those same people. Like after a certain amount of time, they just don’t care anymore.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I know a lot of people kind of can’t imagine being there, but yeah, it happens. It definitely happens. Oh man. I think…
LIZ WOLFE: I do have another story,
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I have nightmares about eating gluten and then, like, running off sick, but luckily it hasn’t happened. Okay, next one. I’ll keep chowing. You go.
LIZ WOLFE: Okay, here’s the next story. All right, so we…wherever we are…we found the Whole Foods. So I went and found the Whole Foods to have a little…a little breakfast because long story short, I accidentally ruined all the eggs we had in the fridge today, and I was just over it, so I went from Whole Foods-that’s what we did at the CrossFit Games in Carlson, California last year when everybody would roll up on the Whole Foods first thing in the morning, and get some bacon, get some eggs, it was all good. But I started to get a little smug about all the canola oil that they use. Obviously we both-I mean, I know you showed a video on canola oil in your workshops, and you know, I started to be real smug about it. And I’m looking around, like making that sniffy noise, like eh, this stuff is probably oxidized. I can just taste that just oxidized taste. It’s just disgusting. Who eats this stuff? I’m walking around, you know, feeling real superior about myself. Walking past the vegan wall, kind of with my nose up. And as I’m walking around, I’m like I just kind of get this feeling that just this karma feeling. I started just feeling like there was karma happening. And I started feeling something kind of like running down the back of my pants leg, with my jeans leg. And [laughs] God, I can’t believe I’m telling you this.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh God.
LIZ WOLFE: On the podcast.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh God.
LIZ WOLFE: So my underwear from yesterday was falling out of my pants leg [laughs]
DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs]
LIZ WOLFE: That was like, please God, no. It was just the worst…just the worst feeling.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, I wish I had been there!
LIZ WOLFE: Oh my gosh.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I wish I had been there.
LIZ WOLFE: I wish you weren’t there because you would have strung it up on a flagpole and pointed and laughed.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I wish I had been there to not tell you for at least like a few minutes and watch other people notice it, and then maybe film it for a minute. [laughs]
LIZ WOLFE: Oh my God. It was so bad. It’s probably on YouTube. It’s totally filmed.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, that’s so funny. Wow, that’s embarrassing.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, so that’s my other story.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: That was a good one. I liked it.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, thank you. I always get…I can only be smug for about 2 minutes before something happens. Something ridiculous. [xxx 10:47] in my bike in my pocket or I fall down or I, you know, run into I don’t know, a trip wire, whatever.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] Oh man. Well, let’s see. We’ve basically like crushed the first 10 minutes, you know..
LIZ WOLFE: Sweet.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Boring people to tears. You know, actually, you know what? Half the time, I think. I don’t know if it’s before we’re on the calls or the recording or like after, I feel like we end up talking about funny stuff, and I always say like oh man, I bet people would want to hear this on the podcast just because it’s funny.
LIZ WOLFE: Totally.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So they can let us know today whether or not that’s true. Oh my God.
LIZ WOLFE: Yes, please please tell us if you like hearing our ridiculous interpersonal conversations. Oh, here’s another thing I wanted to throw in there real quick. I don’t know if you all saw it, but I guess Bob, uh…I always want to say Bob Guinea, but that’s the guy from like the Bachelor in college.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, I always call him Bob Greene, and that’s like Oprah’s…
LIZ WOLFE: No, that’s Oprah’s…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Trainer guy. I know. I know it now…Bob Harper.
LIZ WOLFE: Trainer Bob. My trainer Bob. He’s all into CrossFit now. Apparently he has pirated the NorCal Margarita, so we’ll all going to occupy NorCal Margarita’s now. You know?
DIANE SANFILIPPO: NorCal Margaritas. Okay.
LIZ WOLFE: Just…just silliness. Silliness.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Not that I even drink them.
LIZ WOLFE: Oh, I drink them. When we run out of gluten-free beer, I either drink Bud Light or NorCal Margaritas. But uh…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] All right, I’ll know what to hand you when we get down to Austin in about a week and a half.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, ooooh, yeah. Let’s talk about that. I know a couple of folks wanted…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.
LIZ WOLFE: It seems like feedback. They wanted to hear a little bit more from our last guest that we had on, Diana Rodgers, who’s a nutritional therapy practitioner, who runs a CSA, a farm, CrossFitter, like all around awesome gal. You introduced me to her, Diane. She was our last guest on the show. It sounds like people wanted a little more from her.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.
LIZ WOLFE: Which is awesome. We’ll for sure have her on again. But you want to…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, we can do..
LIZ WOLFE: Do a little primer.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, I was going to say, too, what we can do for Diana. We actually just…we brought her on as a guest, just kind of, you know, answer questions with us. It wasn’t necessarily like a, you know, featured guest kind of plan, but what we’ll do next time is maybe make an announcement that she’s going to come on, and then give people a couple of different topics that she tends to specialize in, and then have them submit questions for Diana. So I think that will work out really well. That-the last one we just had her kind of jump in with us, so…
Talk about what? the Paleo Summit or PaleoFX? What-who’s got like so much stuff going on right now?
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, go.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So PaleoFX, I don’t know how much I can really say about it now ’cause I know we’re going to have a little couple more pow-wows before we get down there, but myself, Diana, and you, we’re all going to be on a panel and what we’re going to talk about…so the whole thing with PaleoFX, I don’t know, for whoever heard about the Ancestral Health Symposium last year, it’s a very science-based event, and that’s awesome, and it’s really cool for all of us who kind of are on the frontlines of trying to translate some of what’s happening in the science to what does that mean, you know, for the practical application of the everyday person. But PaleoFX is even more of that, so…well, AHS is the science to theory, and then PaleoFX is the theory to practice, so you know, what do we think, and then how do we do it? So it’s actually pretty cool because I think it’s a really great opportunity for us as practitioners to talk to other practitioners, hopefully, for the most part whether they’re other nutritional practitioners or movement practitioners, so coaches and whatnot, and trainers, about how to just help different populations of people make their way or ease their way into a more sort of Paleo/whole foods, you know, Weston A. Price-ish type of approach to nutrition and understanding that there are different barriers to that for different groups, and you know, not every person, and I think…
I think this is a little bit of a snafu in the whole Paleo community or at least, has been for maybe, you know, the past year or two, but it seems like people expect every person to approach this idea of Paleo and how appealing it can be and how much it can change your, you know, your life quickly, potentially, thinking that every person A. will commit to a full strict 30 day or longer challenge right off the bat, that they’re ready for that or thinking that that’s what they need right away, or even if assuming that they can all follow the same set of rules to get there. So it’s one of the things that I address a lot with the sugar detox. Like I think for the most part, sugar is the biggest issue that people are having because grains kind of lump into that thing, but with sugar. But really, we can’t approach a 25 year old CrossFitting male the same way we approach a 55 year old, you know, yoga enthusiast female, potentially. And that’s not to say that at the end of the day, they’re not potentially eating from the same group of foods, but the way that they get there is very different, the breakdown of macronutrients will be very different potentially, deficiencies they may have in micronutrients based on just their entire health history may be different, and so you know, we’re looking at ways to address these different populations, and also, you know, potentially, talk about questions that we need to ask them as practitioners and hopefully some of you who are coaches and trainers, etc. out there, you know, get an understanding of how to speak to these people and how to really just learn your audience every single time, whether it’s one person or a group, and understand that you really just can’t approach them all the same way every time because you’re completely missing the boat if try and throw everybody into a strict 30 day Paleo challenge and expect there to be, you know, broad sweeping success in every person, because I think there’s a lot of pushback on that.
And it’s not to say that we can’t expect, you know, that people do something tough for awhile. I’m totally all for that because I do think sometimes people get a little bit whiny about, you know, Oh my God, no bread. Like yeah, no bread, but sometimes you just kind of say, man up, you know? Like no bread. Like you know…I’m going to watch someone…a full grown man eat a pile of pancakes for breakfast and it’s like, it’s just a pile of sugar. Come on, eat some man food, you know? I’m just as quick to dish out some tough love when I think it’s appropriate. Oh, you know, like I get that way with certain people and I think there are certain populations you can talk to that way, and get through to them, and certain populations that you absolutely can’t and you will completely lose them. I talk about a bunch of this stuff on the Paleo Summit presentation that I did with Sean Croxton. Just, you know, how do you address different people? And I just did it from a perspective of, you know, the average person dealing with their friend or family member, you know. How do you talk to that person and how that can, you know, be really different depending on the person and their goals, and whatever they may be struggling with. So anyway…long winded response to potentially a quick question. That’s how I roll, but yeah, does that kind of sound like..? Does that sound like what we’re doing?
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, totally sounds like what we’re doing. I forgot what the original question was.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay, cool.
LIZ WOLFE: Kidding. [laughs]
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh my gosh. So that’s PaleoFX. I keep-I keep taking a bite of this jerky thinking you’re going to talk, and then I keep talking. So that’s PaleoFX, and that’s happening in Austin in about, you know, less than 2 weeks, but obviously not everybody listening to this podcast, thousands of people, are not going to be able to make it to Austin. So somebody’s going to comment somewhere about the fact that I’m chewing. I’m sorry. I didn’t have lunch.
LIZ WOLFE: I’m really offended by the fact that you chew during a free podcast that is clearly [laughs]
DIANE SANFILIPPO: You keep talking. I’m going to finish chewing.
LIZ WOLFE: [xxx 18:55] standard maker. What?
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I said keep talking while I finish chewing. Anyway, so the Paleo Summit..I actually kind of see that as kind of an answer to PaleoFX for people who are at home and can’t be at PaleoFX. Obviously, it’s not going to be the same, you know? What’s really amazing about events like PaleoFX is that all of us can get together in a room, and of course, we’re going to go and learn from different presentations and, you know, we’ll be part of that, but I think it’s really the community aspect, and just meeting a lot of people who, you know, we kind of see this little square avatar, and you think you know people by you know, what they write about or tweet about, and this little tiny picture, and then you meet people in person, and it just changes everything. You know, the dynamic of it all changes, so for people who can’t make it to these events, like really cool. We’ve got some amazing presentations. I think everyone’s just kind of taken their little niche of what they’re going to talk about, so just a couple of examples. I know…I think it was yesterday, Jack Kruse was on, talking about his leptin prescription, and this was all, you can get to a link…we’ll link it right from the podcast notes for the Paleo Summit, but yesterday that was Jack Kruse, and I don’t remember who else is on, but today it’s like Paul Jaminet is talking some starches in the diet and the way that they like to balance macronutrient ratios based on the Perfect Health Diet, which is the book that he’s written. Dr. Tom O’Bryan, which I think we’re going to have on our podcast soon, he talks about gluten sensitivity and, you know, all the complex, different issues that it can affect, and then Matt Stone, who’s kind of like, the Paleo Skeptic, if you will. I’m not really sure I think he’s that skeptical.
LIZ WOLFE: The Paleo Troublemaker.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I think, you know, honestly, I couldn’t even listen to everything he says. And one of my friends who is also a practitioner texted me, and he’s like, I had to stop listening because he doesn’t sound like he has any experience working with people, and it’s like, that’s all great, you can speculate, but why don’t you talk about your clinical experience? And then get back to me. I don’t know whether or not he has much of that, but, you know, I heard a snippet and he was kind of talking about basically, he’s making the argument about how Paleo is low carb, and that that’s not healthy, or that people just go low carb and that’s not healthy in the long term. And like I just get really irritated when people take that stance because I’m like, you obviously don’t even know how to properly teach people about a Paleo diet. Because if you think that that’s all it means, then you’re not going to try and help people understand that that isn’t what it means, or that it shouldn’t be, you mean, for that person, you’re not helping anything. Like you’re just making waves and I feel like you’re just being another troll out there. And who knows? Maybe he’ll come comment on this now. I just feel like, help people. You know, give them some other answers and I guess, you know, some people are out there, just constantly playing devil’s advocate, which is fine, and people should question everything. I don’t expect people to just listen to what we tell them to do and follow it blindly if it doesn’t work for them. But I definitely think that, you know, if you’re just throwing out opposing viewpoints for the sake of it, I just can’t see the value in that. It’s like, okay, you know, nobody’s like, oh, I’m right, and there’s no other way, but I don’t know. I just don’t love his approach, so anyway. It’s cool though because it’s not all, you know, hold hands and everybody agrees, so if people want to check out Paleo Summit, we’ll link to it, and people can hear all kinds of opposing viewpoints, and I think actually what I heard what Paul Jaminet talks about with the whole starches and carbs things, which I have another couple of notes on that for today, too. I think he’s pretty pro starch, as some people might know, and then Nora Gegaudas, who wrote Primal Body, Primal Mind, I guess her presentation is completely like the counter to Paul Jaminet.
LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So it should be pretty interesting.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, she’s pretty geeked out on the fat and the moderate protein. I’m excited to kind of to see the position between the two of them. I think both are interesting.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.
LIZ WOLFE: Because Nora was really kind of what got me into this whole thing, you know. Among other things, I think I kind of started out with CrossFit at Coach Rut’s gym in Kansas City, and he introduced me to the Paleo thing, and then I kind of did a little kind of sidewinded into the Primal Body, Primal Mind camp.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yup.
LIZ WOLFE: And yeah, there’s a lot of cool stuff out there. I want to hear about.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I know a bunch of people who found her book as one of the first ones, which is cool. You know? Like whatever it is that kind of speaks to you. So any other introductory things because I wanted to talk-this where we get to a couple of other questions about that whole like starch, you know, adrenal fatigue, carbohydrate question.
LIZ WOLFE: Do it.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay, so I don’t know when it’s going to go live or what’s going on, but I think Jimmy Moore, and hopefully I’m not like kind of publicizing something that he’s keeping quiet. I don’t really know what his situation is on this post, but I’m sure it’s not going to be a huge deal.
LIZ WOLFE: He [xxx 24:01] got permission.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I know. He likes to put together some aggregate posts, which I think are awesome, really pulling together viewpoints of some really prominent minds out, you know, in our whole nutrition/low-carb/Paleo community, which interestingly enough, you know, he’s the guy who has the whole Livin’ La Vida Low Carb blog and podcast, but I think he’s really open-minded, which is smart. He’s a smart person who thinks, you know. He’s open-minded to the fact that low-carb may not be everything all the time. And I think that the perspective around low-carb is that, you know, for a lot of people, it just means lower than what they had been doing. But he had asked for some feedback from a bunch of us on what we think about low-carb and its place, and in terms of things like thyroid health, which I think Chris Kresser and Chris Masterjohn have talked about a bunch, and just kind of adrenal fatigue issues that may come from eating too low carb, and I just wanted to read one of the questions that I got recently on Facebook. I mean, I think she just posted it today and then give you guys just a little bit of the response that I had given to Jimmy on my take on the whole thing, and then Liz, if you’ve got any other take on it, or if you kind of want to like smile and nod, that’s cool, too.
LIZ WOLFE: Here I am smiling and nodding.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So we had a question…okay. [laughs] I know that most of the time, we kind of agree on a lot of points, so…
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Rachel submitted this question, and I think someone else really early today had sent in a question or just posted on the Facebook wall that she was confused about the whole carb thing and low-carb, so she had a really similar question. I think her name was Mary. So that was on the wall. But this one is from Rachel. “I have a coup-” Or do you want to read it actually? Should I?
LIZ WOLFE: Is it in the doc here?
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, it’s all the way at the bottom. I just pasted it in. It’s bold.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, I’ll read it.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, why don’t you read her question?
LIZ WOLFE: Will do. Okay. “I have a couple odd questions that I’d like to bounce off of you. I did your detox at the beginning of January and shed 13 lbs in the process. By the end of it I had fully weaned myself off of caffeine. My weight loss slowed down immensely for the next 5 weeks (only 3.5 lbs in that time, and I’m in the 230′s). So . . . I started adding caffeine back in slowly a few days ago and my weight loss has jumped back up. Thoughts?
Also, what is your take on the thyroid and adrenal fatigue burn out related to “low carb” eating issue? I keep my carbs at 75-150 or so, in part because I’m breastfeeding and in part because the thyroid issue freaks me out (pregnancy and nursing are also taxing on the thyroid, I hear; and my mom had thyroid cancer in her 40′s; I have a long history with anxiety and stress and disordered eating and yo-yo dieting). Is this a real issue? I have to really go out of my way to get enough carbs even eating “Primal” rather than paleo (i.e. my raw milk gives me a pretty sizable portion of my daily carbs, the rest is non-starchy veggies, occasionally some berries or other fruit in small portions, small portions of sweet potato, onions, and other dairy sources). What do you think? And if this is covered in your book, let me know and I’ll get my hands on it. Thanks!”
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So I’ll get to her little other question about the caffeine, like coming back on, potentially, but what I wanted to say about this, about the whole carb thing. Like I don’t have all of the physiology to be able to talk about, you know, like the different mechanisms that might be affected. But what I do know is that affecting stress from a lot of different angles is never good. And what people are kind of talking about with, you know, the whole low -carb maybe being stressful on the system, I think generally what that’s referring to is much lower carb than what she’s doing right now. And my guess is that her worries about it is that when you’re not eating enough carbohydrates, your body might go through what’s called gluconeogenesis to convert some of the proteins that you’re eating into carbohydrates, so that we have that fuel source in the body. I think it really varies from person to person whether or not a lower carb intake is stressful to your system. So first of all, let me just kind of give my basic thoughts on this whole maybe people need more carbs thing, and then I’ll kind of talk about her more specific question with her background.
But my whole take on this is from the practical implementation side of things; you know, I don’t have clients who are really eating 300 grams or so of carbs a day, just for general health reasons. I absolutely see that it can be a valid approach for some people, who’ve been eating low carb for awhile without benefit. Or who have had halted success, especially athletes. So I don’t honestly believe that carbs are inherently bad or that they’re what contribute to metabolic derangement. I think that bad carbs are bad, and what I mean by that are refined, you know, processed foods. Foods that are devoid of, you know, bio-available micronutrients that will help us to actually metabolize the sugar content of that food, carbohydrate content, and provide adequate fuel for our cells. I can’t really see how whole foods that we’ve survived on for thousands of years would be problematic, except in the case of, you know, we’re in a modern world, the person is dealing with other issues like food addictions or you know, some metabolic damage as a result of the aforementioned bad carbs. So this isn’t an issue of, you know, clients coming in who have been eating sweet potatoes and fruit all their lives, and are having issues dealing with carbs. It tends to be people who have eaten a lot of refined foods for a long time, and maybe need to back off of the carb intake for a lot of different reasons.
People get hooked on sugar, grains, refined foods. The problems just begin to mount. My point is that generally, you know, I eat fairly low carb and recommend that people eat lower carb, you know, maybe under 150 grams, and I don’t think that most people consider that very low. But if you’re less active, you probably don’t need more than that in a day. And I, you know, and I certainly wouldn’t rule out the option of adding carbs back in and rebalancing macronutrient ratios. You know, I think one of the problems can happen if you’re continuing to build your plate exactly the same way, and just adding the carbs back. Then you’re not rebalancing things at all. That can cause someone to gain more weight back ’cause they actually are just adding calories back to their plate that they maybe hadn’t been eating before. which I know is one of the arguments that people make about, you know, Atkins, or just a low-carb approach in general is that we lose weight because we’re not eating as many food groups or as many calories. And that may be possible, you know. I think that’s pretty likely. I know for myself if I don’t eat dense carb sources, the rest of my food pretty much stays the same, and if I do, that they’re just an add on. And I think one of the benefits to a lower carb approach is that your satiety is much higher, or at least, you know, I’ve found that, and I see a lot of my clients have found that, that their satiety is higher without the carbs, so it does leave you, you know, eating fewer calories, and that can be why it works.
You know, for whatever reason, it works, but I just don’t think that people need to stick to their low-carb approach if it’s not working for them. You know, they’re plugging away eating a diet that they don’t feel good eating, why keep doing it? You know? Just because somebody says that low carb is the way to go, it doesn’t mean that that’s what going to be right for everyone. You know? And I think it’s a fine line to walk because I think this whole Paleo perspective is something that for most people, you know. If I say, oh why do this if you’re not feeling well and if you’re, you know, your body is kind of not telling you that things are going the right direction, well, okay. So people are going to feel pretty junky the first couple of weeks potentially of coming off of garbage food. Either eating refined foods and grains and yeah, so days 3 through 20 potentially someone feels really awful. Well, that’s not really what I’m talking about here. You know, that’s like you’re detoxing, you need time to adjust to the fact that you’re getting in real whole foods, but what I’m talking about is, if we’re getting a whole just whole foods, maybe the balance of macronutrients is not working for you, there’s no reason why you need to kind of just put yourself in that box and say, oh, but I’m a low-carber, or I’m a zero-carber, or, you know, I want to eat more carbs and low fat or the Zone or whatever it may be. If it’s not working for you, and not working for you is a lot of I think that can mean a lot of different things. You know, if it’s not helping you reach your goals, but it’s also, you know, is it too stressful for you? You know, this has happened to me before, too, where I’ve done ketogenic approach for awhile, and I actually feel physically really good when I eat that way, but sometimes mentally it’s too stressful for me to handle for different reasons, or just, you know, for lifestyle reasons, like even working on recipes for the book. I was eating pretty low carb, but then I was like, I can’t taste these recipes if I’m not eating enough carbs in a day, or if I’m not allowing myself to have more.
So there’s a lot of different reasons why something might not be working. One of the biggest problems or mistakes that people make when they go Paleo is that they forget that they had been eating very dense sources of carbs, and that in of itself isn’t the source of their problems, but a lot of people, and I’ve heard this even recently, you know, they just stick to veggies and non-starchy veggies like that, and they almost mistakenly end up on a low-carb path and discover ill side effects related to, you know, what this person’s asking about-Rachel. Low energy, cortisol issues, thyroid dysregulation, you know, sometime into their new lifestyle, and then someone says to me, oh my performance at the gym has really decreased, and I’m like tell me what you’re eating. They tell me what they’re eating and inevitably they’re not getting in any form of starch at all, and I know that the choices are more limited. I wrote a whole post on Paleo sources of dense carbs for that reason. It is a little bit more limited in some ways just because society doesn’t make things, you know, our of sweet potatoes all over the place. They’re made out of wheat everywhere, but I think that people just need to take into account what their activity level is and how they’re feeling and make that stuff, you know, easy to get their hands on. But we can put a link to that, you know, Paleo sources of carbs and you know, I frequently send that link.
And I don’t hold any dogma around the low-carb approach being healthier for every person. I think it can be really good intervention right off the bat, just to get people away from sugar in their system. I think a lot of people after a few weeks feel great, right? And they think that that’s one of the arguments that’s coming out that’s like, well, it works really well at first. Okay, so why is it a bad thing to do at first? And if it does work really well, and then you help somebody add those things back in, that’s where practitioners, you know, like us…that’s what we do. You know what I mean? And it’s not true that every person needs a coach to hold their hand, but when there are people out there who kind of think they quote unquote know how to do Paleo or whatever it is and they’re telling other people what to do and you know, what to eat, you have to understand that it’s a different situation for every person. So everybody following a cookie cutter low-carb Paleo approach, like that’s not going to work for everybody and I think you and I might, you know, get a little upset when we see other people directing, you know, an athlete to eat that way. It’s like, well, no, that doesn’t make sense for an athlete.
LIZ WOLFE: Yup.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: You know?
LIZ WOLFE: Definitely not a CrossFit athlete. where the intervals are not predictable.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, and so my last little point for Rachel on the whole thing about breastfeeding and the fact that she’s had some issues around yo-yo dieting/disordered eating, like absolutely, your only focus right now should be doing what’s the healthiest for your body and to feed your baby an adequate milk supply. Like that’s really the primary focus. I would not want you to be thinking much about losing weight at this time. Of course, you know, binging on fast food and kind of getting emotional in eating, no, we don’t want that. But the reality is you need to just make sure that all of that’s working well and you’re not stressing your system too much. So I don’t see any reason for her to be considering, you know, eating low carb at all. 150, 200 grams of carbs…it’s not the carbs that are the problem; it’s the bad carbs that are the problem. And I think, you know, maybe I’m making too much of a general statement with that, but that’s totally what I think.
LIZ WOLFE: I think that’s a better general statement to make than generally stating that low carb is best. You know what I’m saying? I think that that…I think former is much more broadly applicable than the idea that a low carb diet is right for everyone.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I mean, I think it’s the same point that like…it’s not the idea that people don’t like the Zone because of the ratio that it prescribes necessarily. Like I would never argue that there’s not-that there’s people out there who feel good eating 30% fat, 30% protein, and 40% carbohydrates in their diet. I don’t-I’m pretty like macronutrient agnostic when it comes to what’s going to make each person feel good. I just care about the food quality. I just care that people are doing whatever they’re doing with good quality nutrient dense foods that’s not irritating their system, and you know, that’s kind of promoting the right kind of health internally. Not just whatever’s happening on their plate, you know, in numbers. Coming off my soapbox.
LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] So all I-
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Anything else on the carb-yeah, carb thing? We’ll circle back to her question but I don’t really have too much on that, but we’ll circle back to the caffeine question.
LIZ WOLFE: Oh, yeah, the caffeine question. Well, okay, the only thing about the carb thing that I’ll throw in is kind of tangential, but like when I…okay, so what are people exactly worrying about? And I mean, I know the answer to this question is kind of we already know, but I’m going to ask it anyway. What are people worrying about that they’re so concerned about the perfectly executed low-carb diet? or the perfect amount of carbs, etc etc. Are these people thinking of ideal body composition? Or are they thinking about ideal health? And also kind of what is this concept of ideal body composition? And I ask that because I’ve found that a lot of the really concerned low-carb people that come to me are looking to get rid of some like tiny cellulite dimple, you know, on the right side of their knee or something. That’s what I’ve found. That people that are…and this is not true, I don’t think in the grand community that we’re kind of talking about and where this issue originated in the first place. I think it did kind of spring out of a concern over, well, is it safe for the metabolically deranged? This, that and the other. But the people that I’m talking to, a lot of times, don’t necessarily-they haven’t made that separation between the best health thing vs. the body composition that I want thing. So a lot of times when I hear low-carb quote unquote from somebody that’s not metabolically deranged and not concerned about some kind of digestive failure, Type 2 diabetes, etc. I’m actually hearing self-judgment, self-judgment, self-judgment. There’s something wrong with me. I have to cut out all carbs. You know? And I don’t know. That’s…I just kind of want to throw that in there because I’m not…I’m not a lean at all costs type of gal. And it’s okay if you are, but there is sometimes…there is a sacrifice that, you know, amongst you know, the idea of like health, ideal leanness, what we want to look like vs. what our body wants from us at that time in our lives, even within the context of eating real whole quality foods.
So anyway, I don’t know. I actually found like a couple months ago, to my dismay, I kind of like felt like a little bit of a low-carb panacea that I was looking for, but there was like a week and a half where I did not have time to go to the store. It was the busiest couple weeks of my life, and I was incorporating more starch. I was doing like a giant sweet potato in the morning, and it was just kind of working out that way, and I found myself less hungry than I think I’ve ever been in my life. I was like…I probably wasn’t eating enough calories because for whatever reason, that starch, although I assumed I was going to be so much hungrier because of it, and I was a little worried about it, I wasn’t.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.
LIZ WOLFE: And maybe it was because of stress, I don’t know. But like you said, it really is individual. You can’t always even answer this question appropriately for the group. You know?
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, absolutely. And I think…yeah, I definitely talk about that, you know, to everyone who comes into the seminar, and even to one-on-one clients, like this idea of leanness and I think we’ve talked about it a bunch on the show before.
LIZ WOLFE: Yup.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Just whatever level that people are expecting to get, and you know, I’m guilty of it too sometimes. It’s tough. Standing up in front of a crowd and feeling like people might be judging you for whatever shape you’re taking that day.
LIZ WOLFE: Right.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: And you know, my shape, and I’m pretty candid about it because I do share the belief that you have this whole like…I just don’t think that a certain level of leanness is always, you know, indicative of your level of health. And sometimes quite the contrary. You know, obviously…
LIZ WOLFE: Right.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Whoever caught the Oscars this weekend, you know, we might see some people looking a little thinner than what looks healthy, so I would rather somebody have a little more weight on them and not get all spun up about super low-carb all the time and do what’s not going to stress them out, mentally and physically as much as possible, but yeah, it’s tough. It’s a tough one.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So…what was her question about the caffeine, you know, tried adding caffeine back in slowly, her weight loss jumped back up. I mean, I just think, you know, if that’s a stressor to her system, it potentially could be affecting her sleep and she doesn’t realize that it is, or maybe it’s affecting the level of deep sleep that she’s getting or not. I would just pull it back out, like, you know, if things were working when you weren’t drinking it, I would pull it back out because whether it’s-the coffee directly or an indirect effect of what’s happening with the caffeine or whatever else is going on, I would just get rid of it and see if the weight loss that you had resumes and you know, it could be that or it could be something else. But I wouldn’t stress too much about it. That’s really it on that.
And just kind of side note, I did notice that the post I was just talking about from Jimmy Moore, he did put that live, so we can put a link to that, and people can see like a ton of response that he has on this whole topic of low carb and thyroid health, adrenal health, etc. And I will say, too, you know. I definitely have been making it a point to ask people more and more if they are consciously getting those carbs into their diet because I’m guilty of it, too. I forget. And I think I end up probably eating my carbs sometimes in chocolate because I’m not eating them in starchy foods.
LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]
DIANE SANFILIPPO: No, I’m serious, you know. Or people are doing chocolate or fruit, and not getting the starchy foods in. Whatever. We talked about this one topic the whole time, I mean.
LIZ WOLFE: You know what’s funny, I-yeah, we’re like getting up there. But here’s something that’s kind of funny. I’ve been doing a little bit of work for an organization that kind of needs to straddle the line between you know, public consumption and actually giving good advice, which is really tough for, you know, mainstream organization that wants to kind of keep the tenets of real food, whole food, eating in mind, while still pleasing, you know, like FEMA, but it’s funny because I’ve been digging through all these studies about anti-oxidants and the value of fruits and vegetables, and yadda yadda yadda, and it’s so funny because everything that I’ve looked at that talks about some kind of benefit for anti-oxidants, it’s like they’re studying antioxidants from chocolate. Like screw raspberries, you know, just eat your chocolate. I think that’s chocolate and sweet potatoes. I think that’s the way…I think that’s the way we need to push things.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So I was right all along? I’m just kidding.
LIZ WOLFE: You were right all along. I don’t know. Sometimes I feel like…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I was eating it for the fiber. That was always my claim. My body processes a lot of fiber, and I was like, you know how…no, I’m just kidding. I don’t think I really need fiber.
LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] That was funny. I don’t know. I think sometimes…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Ay-yi-yi.
LIZ WOLFE: people overestimate the nutrient value of…oh, man, I don’t even want to go there. Nevermind. Nevermind! Let’s move on to the next thing.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] Are we like the anti-vegetable people?
LIZ WOLFE: Animal products-woo hoo!
DIANE SANFILIPPO: No, we’re the Kurt Harris like vegetables are kind of the last thing to come in, eh, whatever. You know, yeah. Yeah, maybe we should get to a couple of other…a couple of other questions. People might want to hear answers to other questions. Oh! Yeah, whatever. No…yeah, other questions. I’m not going to get…I’m not going to get sappy again right now. I’m just, no. Let’s answer some more questions.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, I think we used up…I think we opened up the sap package enough the last time, but we’ll…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Put it away.
LIZ WOLFE: We’ll keep it nice with time. But, you know, I can’t promise anything ongoing.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay.
LIZ WOLFE: So I’ll just do the…I love this comment from Rochelle on the blog, so I’m just going to read it real quick because I always do this, and I need to remember not to do this. All right. So Rochelle wrote in: Just one comment….use of the word “chemicals”. I’m a chemical engineer by training and the word “chemicals” encompasses all the wonderful things in the world – air, water, salt, bacon – in addition to bad things like HFCS and arsenic – all those things are chemicals. So, perhaps instead of saying bad things like artificial sweeteners are “chemicals” maybe say they are overly processed or artificial or something more specific. Sorry…this is a little pet peeve of mine. Chemicals can be good and bad.”
I just love that. She’s totally right and that’s why I try and stick to the word “crap” instead of “chemicals,” but when we’re trying to clean it for, you know, all five people that listen to our podcast, sometimes, I can be a little bit inaccurate. But I think that’s a really good distinction because very true.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.
LIZ WOLFE: And from now on, maybe we’ll just stick to words like crap and, you know,…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, artificial I think is good.
LIZ WOLFE: Industrial detritus.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I’ve definitely been guilty of that with my chemical vs. non chemical sweeteners, but I think part of the reason I did that in categorizing sweeteners in two different ways, was just to…just to divide it so that people would think of it more of like putting chemicals in their body, and I think most people, again, this is just practical side of things, most people don’t think in the, you know, as a chemist. So I appreciate the accuracy of the, you know, making our word choices appropriately. I think just calling it artificial doesn’t seem to have the gravity as saying like, don’t put artificial things into your bodies, like well, people don’t seem to think that that’s as scary as me saying like don’t eat chemicals. You know?
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. You have to take advantage of the fear mongering.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Because people think that chemicals is like…you know what I mean?
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, we’re going to fear monger. I think it’s good.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So, you know, maybe we can throw it out there. Maybe people can come up with a scarier way to talk about artificial sweeteners because I absolutely have no…I hold no…I don’t even know like a strong enough way of saying that like there’s no reason why anybody should be putting that stuff in their system. I’ve done it. I used Splenda for many a year.
LIZ WOLFE: Yes.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Who even knows? I mean, everything I tell people not to eat, I’ve eaten, but there’s just no good reason for it at all.
LIZ WOLFE: No.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Even to save calories in like your cup of coffee, what is it? 16 calories to put a teaspoon of sugar in your coffee?
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, exactly.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Get over it. You know? Like really, you’re not helping anybody by using that Splenda, so anyway.
LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, God.
LIZ WOLFE: We took out the sass.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, came back out. Can’t help out.
LIZ WOLFE: All right, next I go to…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: All right, what’s next? I think we can do a couple more. I think they’re pretty short.
LIZ WOLFE: Cool. All right, question number 2. This is from Facebook and unfortunately, I did not copy the name over. “Hey Liz, I have been following and listening for awhile and I love your work!” I don’t know if I would call it work. It’s more kind of like…I kind of just take different colors of paint and throw them up against the wall and see what sticks, but I really appreciate the nice comment. You made my day. “I was just wondering if you have any tips on how to get rid of a break out? For some reason I have just got some cystic acne” I guess it’s flaring up for her, so she was asking for a little bit of help. And one thing I’ve kind of found a little bit interesting, and I would love to talk to maybe someone who is a practitioner of Chinese Medicine. There is like a Chinese acne type face mask that I find fascinating, but it seems to be the same thing kind of regurgitated on a few internet sites over and over. So I think I’m going to talk to my buddy Will from Ora Wellness and see if he has any insight on this.
But I had kind of the same thing going on around my jawline last year at some point, and that’s when I started writing about kind of the different Weston A. Price principles that I was incorporating on a regular basis. And basically I did the cod liver oil/butter oil blend from Green Pastures every single day. I did some Brewer’s yeast, which I’m not sure if that actually was super helpful to me, but at the time, I felt like I was going to try anything and I actually really did like it. I did a ton of fermented foods. Oh gosh, I can’t even remember, but the post is called WAP Me Pretty, and we’ll put a link for it up there. You can kind of check it out. I know our friend Hayley from Primal Palate has been using some of that cod liver oil/butter oil, and she says her face is looking great. But there’s some pictures of my face before and after in that post, and that might be a little bit helpful. But I think one of the most important things is to get some really quality fats in there. Make sure you’re breaking down appropriately. You know, we don’t have a whole lot of background information on this, so obviously I don’t, but there could be a lot of different things underlying.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, unless we know where it is on her face, like a couple of things that people can just keep in mind about locations of acne, at least from what I know about why they can appear is along the forehead and the upper to mid cheek area, so like cheekbone, which is very mid-cheek, and forehead is typically food allergies or food intolerances, and a lot of times what we’ll see in the mid-cheek, like kind of where you think you’re getting it from holding your phone, potentially
LIZ WOLFE: Oh yeah.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: is probably a response to dairy, a response to dairy. So if it just flared up out of nowhere, you don’t realize that you maybe ate something out of place a couple days ago. You know, you can get a response. It can take a few days for that to show up, so maybe track back and think about what you ate. Unlike what Liz, you were describing around the jawline or right around the mouth, especially for women, but I think both for men and women, definitely a hormonal issue going on.
LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: And then I actually get…And I’m trying to figure this one out for myself, and I’m a little nervous about what it could be, but I’m taking your advice on the butter oil/cod liver oil blend. I just started taking, but I tend to get a couple that creep up just right over my lymph nodes, and I’ve heard a couple people say this could be something with a fungal infection…
LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Which sounds totally freaky, but I don’t tend to eat tons of sugar, but it could be something that creeps up if I do eat more sugar. So that could be something related to a fungal infection if it’s like on your lymph nodes. I think. Somebody let me know if they’ve heard differently about that.
LIZ WOLFE: That is very interesting.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: But I definitely know that…
LIZ WOLFE: I’ve had that same thing happen actually when I go kind off the rails. I mean, it’s been awhile, but when I do go off the rails on sugar, I will get that kind of creeping in that direction, so it’s really interesting.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Seriously like right over my lymph node on my throat, like if I were trying to take my pulse, it’s right there where that happens to me.
LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: But I mean, like the rest of my skin recently…I mean, it’s one of the things I’ve dealt with for awhile, like trying to figure out the whole acne issue, and for awhile for me, it was definitely dairy that was doing it. And then also for her, some possibilities, and this is something that I’m doing for myself as well in addition to the butter oil/cod liver oil blend, I mean, I’ve talked about this before, diindolymethane, (DIM)…
LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Basically what it is is a really potent blend of a nutrient that you’re getting from cruciferous vegetables that are known to help your liver detoxify, so it help detoxify estrogen, if you’ve got some estrogen overload. I don’t think I’ve ever described what diindolymethane is before, but that is what it is. Usually we tell people also to eat more cruciferous vegetables in their diet, you know, but if you’re trying to a get whole potent whack of that, then the supplement can be useful. So there’s a couple of other possible supplements that can be useful, but it would be cool if we found out where the acne was, and if she can track back on some food that she ate, that will be useful as well.
LIZ WOLFE: I’d like to write a little more on that.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: A couple more?
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, a couple more…yeah, I think there are some other little quickies here.
LIZ WOLFE: This next one is a little…I don’t know. I toyed around with whether to put that up here or not. So basically the question is should I listen to my body or not? And it kind of made me laugh, so basically I have a particularly like vocal friend, who will sometimes kind of take some of the morsels off the philosophical stuff from different sizes of Paleosphere, like all these things that people are talking about on their blog pages and all that stuff. And she’ll kind of bait me with them. [laughs] And I say that out of love because she knows that I feel that way, and actually way back when, I actually wrote a post about a question that she asked me, and it ended up getting a response from someone who felt it was directed at them, so I try and tread carefully with this, because you kind of never know like where something comes from and why people are talking about it, and I think that a lot of us can be pretty sensitive. I know I can be pretty sensitive about the stuff that I post. The stuff that I put out there I want everybody to like it, I want everybody to agree with it, and I don’t want people like publically taking me to task over stuff.
So I have kind of an idea of where this came from, but I do…I think it’s a good question, and I’ll go ahead and give my read on it. And, this is actually why I write my blog because I really don’t think that most things, this included, can be boiled down to just like one Facebook or Twitter sound bite. And like, we talk about all the time, Diane, like context is different. People are different, etc. So that, to contextualize my answer to this question, should I listen to my body or not, obviously not, if your body is telling you to like bathe in cocoa puffs. Like that is clearly, that’s clearly not a signal that you should be listening to.
But this question about listening…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I’ve been doing that.
LIZ WOLFE: I know. Get out of the bathtub, Diane. Jeez. But okay, so, this has actually been a really powerful contextual tool for me in my nutrition practice. And I think it’s been a really important one because I used to think this whole listen to your body thing was really hokey, and kind of the same thing as “everything in moderation” just kind of an excuse to not exactly do what you’re supposed to do.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Exactly.
LIZ WOLFE: But so…this is what I do. I go through like a long and very intricate detailed kind of symptom burdened thing with my clients. Like I look to look at every single system particularly digestive, and look at these different indicators that they may or may not be dealing with. I have not yet had a client come through that did not have some kind of digestive indicator that was making them uncomfortable in some way or another. Or some kind of whatever it is that’s making them uncomfortable, whether that be acne, whether that be, you know, love handles, I don’t care, whatever it is. So that’s what you need to look at. You need to look at can you poop? No? Do you have acne? Yes. What’s your body telling you? Your body is telling you that something is wrong, and you need to listen to your body. I’m not saying listen to every craving, and you know, indulge yourself because your body wants it. I’m saying, look at what your body is telling you because everybody has a message from their body that they’re not hearing at one time or another. If you’re having trouble going to the bathroom, if you burp an hour after meals, if you feel calm on the outside but jittery on the inside, one of these next questions, if you grind your teeth, your body is telling you something that you’re not hearing. And that’s what you need to listen to. And that’s what a nutrient dense diet is there to take care.
So yeah, like I think you should listen to your body, but I think you should know what you’re listening to. You know what I’m saying? You need to kind of cut through the dross and get to something that’s actually meaningful, rather than just saying, oh my gosh, my body really really wants some, you know, fruity Pebbles or you know, whatever, vegan soy bacon. You know what I’m saying?
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So you’re not taking endorsements from Kellogg’s anytime soon. [laughs]
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, exactly. I really feel like some genetically modified corn today. Like no, that’s not what we’re talking about. But I do want people to really kind of internalize this seeking. I don’t want them to listen to me; I want them to listen to their body.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Mm-hmm.
LIZ WOLFE: I want them to take whatever tools they can, evaluate what they’re dealing with, and attack it appropriately. And that starts with tuning yourself into what you’re dealing with, so…that’s my answer, and it’s not [xxx 59:09] so.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, I like that. Well, I like it, and I get this question a lot, like people who often ask about “well, if I’m not hungry in the morning, should I-do I have to eat breakfast or not?” And I’m like, well, what happens the rest of the day? You know?
LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Is it just that you don’t eat that meal and then you never make up for what you missed? Or do you just basically just get it in for the rest of the day, in a, you know, a smaller amount of time, but you do it. Or is it like you, you know, wait until dinner and then eat all of your food at dinner time? And then, all of that being said, where are you? Are you, you know, in a good place? Do you feel good? Do you look good? Or you, you know, are things going well? You know.
LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: But it’s like, the people who are looking to lose a bunch of weight and they’re like, do I have to eat if I’m not hungry in the morning? Yeah, I’m going to make you eat in the morning because your body doesn’t actually send you the right signals. So I don’t want you listening to your body because if you listen to your body, that’s taking you in the direction that you don’t want to go in. So, do you know what I mean? So, like yeah.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So absolutely listen to your body, but where that ends is my…if that person is fifty pounds overweight, for example, that’s where the message ends. The fact that your body is then not telling you that you’re hungry in the morning, that’s the message that I say, let’s fix these signals and…does that make sense? Like I think that I kind of have another…
LIZ WOLFE: Oh yeah. And that should be like, sorry, but duh, you know what I’m saying? Like duh. We all know like…
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I have a whole string of like [laughs] I have a post like I’m trying to write, but please I’m trying to write a book, and like nothing is getting in the line-in the queue of well, I want to write this post, but you know what? I need to finish the book first. But I have this post that’s like, can you link me to a study, you know, or research that proves x, y, or z about changing my diet, and that affecting my health in a positive way. And it’s like, exactly what you’re saying, like, you’re looking in the mirror, and you’re 50 pounds or 100 pounds overweight. Or, you know…
LIZ WOLFE: You can’t poo.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: your blood pressure…yeah. Your blood pressure’s out of whack or you can’t poop or, you know, you have acne or there’s some signal that’s like…
LIZ WOLFE: You’re coming to me in the first place. [laughs]
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Exactly, or you’re asking this question. Whatever you’re doing right now isn’t working or whatever you’re friend or loved one is doing isn’t working. Like it does not matter what science I show a person. If they don’t understand that whatever’s happening in front of them and within them is wrong, then like I don’t understand how I might be able to create a logical answer for them if they don’t even…if their thought process defies logic entirely. Like, you know. I’ve known people who are like 100 pounds overweight or more, and I’m not trying to like poo poo on those people. Like, I think it’s a junky situation to be in a lot of times. I know people who are in that situation who eat really, really good food, and there’s a lot of complexity there. So don’t get me wrong on this, but I’ve definitely had some people who are like, well, my blood pressure’s really good. And it’s like, yeah, but that’s not the only indicator of health and you can look in a mirror or you can feel that your knees are screaming, and you know, you have joint pain. Or you have, you know, skin issues. You have all these other issues, so, you know, I think it is really important for people to listen to their body, and I think it’s important to not be dogmatic with what we said about the whole carb thing, and I think that there’s a certain point at which, if you’re working with a practitioner who’s helping you to identify the signals your body is sending a little bit better, listen to them. There’s a reason that you hired them. You know? Hear them out. Do what they’re asking because if you don’t do what the practitioner asks you to do, you’ll just never know whether or not that would have succeeded. You know?
LIZ WOLFE: Right.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: And you can find out if I made sense.
LIZ WOLFE: It did. You always make sense. Are you kidding?
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay, good. Great.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. Well, I can save this one for the next time. We’re at 1:05, well, probably at 1:03. What do you think? Keep going or close it out?
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think just finish it up since you already kind of talked about this a little bit. The one from Catalina.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, okay, this one’s from Catalina: “I clench and grind my teeth. I have a mouth guard and everything, but I wasn’t sure if this was something that nutrition could help. I was hoping to get your thoughts. Thanks and love your podcast.” So yeah, I kind of alluded to this earlier, but this can actually be pretty serious and I don’t-I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea to see like a cranial expert or something like that. I don’t have a resource for that right off hand, unfortunately.
But the idea is if you’re like systemically stressed, whether that’s physically or mentally, a nutritionally sound diet, of course, with you know, adequate fat, adequate cholesterol, is a great place to start to alleviate systemic stress. But the idea is that when you have that kind of chronic stress in your life, your body just upregulates epinephrine, norepinephrine, and that elevates the…I never say it right…adrenocorticotropic hormone, and that basically just means like, cortisol, cortisol, cortisol. So we all know what cortisol does, yadda yadda yadda. Adrenal fatigue. Like all of these things are kind of interrelated. So I think like a lot of situations, this is where you just kind of take a step back and look at everything else that’s going on. Every other thing that may kind of play into this a little bit because I don’t…I mean, I don’t think this is something you put a mouth guard on and move forward. I think it’s really something you need to deal with, so I don’t know if you have any take on that, Diane.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: I would just point her to our podcast on adrenal fatigue, and I think I probably pointed out a couple of useful supplements that, you know, again, we’re not trying to put a band aid on things, but if it is an issue with her, you know, stress levels and what’s happening with the signals of what her, the signals that her brain is sending to her adrenals is what kind of cortisol output she needs, and to try and take steps to reducing stress, and just having issues getting there. Maybe taking some GABA to kind of calm down the neurotransmitter status or B vitamins and vitamin C to just support her adrenal glands, and just doing whatever she can to alleviate stress, and making sure she’s getting a deep, restful sleep, but you know, the actual grinding of the teeth kind of may be the end result of this systemic stress, so unless you really kind of sit down with them and get a full intake of what’s going on in their lives, and she can probably reflect on whatever’s happening in her life, and you know, some of it can be really deep-rooted stress. You know, maybe somebody feels like they’re fine right now, but a lot of times, there’s other deeper issues going on that the person is kind of holding onto.
LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: You know, so some of the supplements can be useful to just alleviate whatever your brain chemistry is doing, but then taking, you know, conscious steps to reducing the stress and doing some meditation on that kind of work, but yeah, that’s all I really kind of have on that one.
LIZ WOLFE: Cool, I think we’re done.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: And that’s it. Wrap it up for now. Let me see. I probably should have said this at the beginning of the podcast, not at the end. Hopefully people are listening all the way through. But this weekend, March 3rd, I’m teaching here at home in New Jersey, in Fairfield at Brazen Athletics. That is my gym. So people can catch…if you’re catching this podcast, the Wednesday right before that seminar, and then I think I’m going to be at Lululemon in Garden State Plaza on Monday. Monday, March 10th. And then you and I will both be down at PaleoFX in Austin shortly thereafter.
LIZ WOLFE: Woo hoo!
DIANE SANFILIPPO: So any other announcements? Any other announcements from you? Or is that it for now?
LIZ WOLFE: No. No announcements at all.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, I forgot to say this, too. [laughs] I’m kind of like in a holding pattern waiting any day now for Amazon to load up my book. I did release some stuff on Facebook because through the Paleo Summit, I was talking about the book and just wanted to give people a place to kind of sign up. On BalancedBites.com, there’s a tab called “Books” and if people click on that, and want to get on the emailing list, I’m just making a special emailing list to announce when the book is available on Amazon for pre-order, just so other people don’t have to stalk it the way I stalk it. That’s not my regular emailing list, although if you are on the regular emailing list, you will get a notification about it as well. But if you just aren’t on that list, if you follow things on Facebook and Twitter and you don’t need more news regularly, but you definitely want to find out when the book is, you know, released for pre-order, you can jump on that list. And I guess just basically the benefit of pre-ordering the book is that whatever the time period that it’s on pre-order, Amazon locks you in for the lowest possible price, so even if you pay, like $3 more, then they lower it the next month, you’ll get whatever the lowest price is in that time frame. So it’s pretty cool. And that’s really it. And your book ships the first day it starts shipping, or I think you might even get it, you know, before that, potentially so. I’ll have more details on it later, but yeah, just want to let people know about that. Until next week…
LIZ WOLFE: Very exciting!
DIANE SANFILIPPO: All right, I’ll catch you later then.
LIZ WOLFE: All right, so yeah, catch you on the flip side.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: That’s an athletic name, flips. [laughs]
LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] All right, bye.
DIANE SANFILIPPO: It is. Later.
LIZ WOLFE: Later.
Diane & Liz
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