Podcast Episode #136: Gluten-Free Negativity, Botox, Nutrition Practice Laws & Pesticide Exposure.

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1.  Updates from Diane [7:14] 2.  Liz’s updates [10:35] 3.  Considering Botox and fillers [13:30] 4.  Responding to coworker’s negativity about gluten-free [20:09] 5.  Ways to help minimize effects of pesticide exposure [28:11] 6.  How to practice nutritional therapy in a state with restrictions [34:02] 7.  Nutrition response testing [42:59] 8.  When food is restricted in the work setting [49:06]

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Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone! Welcome to episode 136 of the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Liz, and I’m here, as usual, with Diane. And we just can’t wait to get started today. But first, our sponsors. Pete’s Paleo, bringing fine dining to your cave. If you’d like to make eating paleo a little easier on yourself, checkout Pete’s meal plans. The meals are fantastic for any time you’re on the go or just don’t want to deal with figuring out what you’re going to eat tonight. Love Pete’s Paleo personally because they use local resources, local to them in, I believe, San Diego. They are great people, so that’s always good, too. Pete’s Paleo is generously offering our listeners a free pound of bacon with the purchase of any meal plan, and the code to enter is BBLOVESBACON at That will shave a penny off of your order, and they will throw your bacon in when they send it out.

Diane Sanfilippo: They’re just going to throw it. Like, from across the room.

Liz Wolfe: Literally.

Diane Sanfilippo: They’re like, wait, hold that box up! Boom!

Liz Wolfe: Oh my gosh. One thing my husband does that I always {laughs} I always want to make fun of him for. He always says, hey do you mind just throwing that over here real quick, or, you know, we can just throw some money in this account or we can throw, he’s always throwing stuff metaphorically, and I always want to tease him for it, but I know that that’s what mean wives do, and I’m not a mean wife.

Diane Sanfilippo: Just throw a roll of quarters at him one day.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: And be like, wait, you wanted me to throw you $10, right?

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Wait, do you mean metaphorically or ? Alright, sponsor number two. , Chameleon Cold-Brew, available at lots of grocery stores nationwide. You can check out their website for a store locator. Right now, I believe online ordering may or may not be up, down, side to side, we don’t know but you can still check and figure out where Chameleon Cold-Brew might be near you. They are organic, fair trade, smooth, rich, really, really good, concentrated coffee. We love it iced or warmed up.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think they have a new non-concentrate, as well, ready to drink. So, check those out too, I don’t know. {laughs} This will be the anniversary of my re- caffeination.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} what?

Diane Sanfilippo: Because, well so, we’re recording this before PaleoFx, but it’s going to air after PaleoFx, so I’m expecting Chameleon to keep us significantly caffeinated while we’re there, because it’s their fault I started drinking coffee again a year ago.

Liz Wolfe: It is their fault.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. It is. Because their stuff was in the green room, and I was like, this is delicious!

Liz Wolfe: We’re recording in the past, talking about an event that is in our immediate future.

Diane Sanfilippo: Correct.

Liz Wolfe: So, I assume PaleoFx was a blast.

Diane Sanfilippo: It was probably awesome.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, probably awesome. Great to meet everybody! {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Great to meet you, everybody! {laughs} We’ll talk about it legitimately post event.

Liz Wolfe: We will.

Diane Sanfilippo: Probably, what, on the next episode. So that will be episode 137.

Liz Wolfe: Yes. So do you want to talk about our final, new sponsor?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes, I do! Rickaroons is a really great company. They are making a 100% organic, gluten-free, soy-free, paleo friendly, it’s vegan friendly, which I think most macaroons… well, actually some macaroons have egg white in them.

Liz Wolfe: Eggs, mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, so these don’t. So they’re vegan friendly. You know, which, whatever floats your boat. Most importantly, they are delicious. So, kind of a funny thing. I actually tried an entire, {laughs} I don’t know, dozen of them many months ago for the first time, and they do have almond butter in them. So if people are listening, I know tons of our listeners are very up to speed on the amazing quantity of food allergies that Diane has, but I do have an oral allergy to most, all of the tree nuts I think? Almonds, pecans, walnuts, and all those yummy, delicious nuts. So I can’t actually eat them anymore! But they’re really delicious and I got to find that out before this allergy became crazy. So, anyway definitely check them out. They are really great, actually, as a pre or post workout snack. I know lots of times people are looking for something they can carry with them that is sort of a treat, sort of a snack. They’re not super sweet, and they’re also made with a lower glycemic sweetener. I think they’re using coconut palm sugar. And I’m actually going to be talking with the amazing folks at the company pretty soon, so we’ll be able to get a couple of interviews, sort of frequently asked questions going back and forth, just like we did with chef Pete a while ago about their food and the service. So, if you didn’t catch those episodes back in the day, tune in to hear a little bit more about Pete’s Paleo company, and then you can tune in, in future episodes you’ll hear a little bit more about Rickaroons, about the company, about the product. I know they’re also available locally; I think they’re also in the San Diego area. So, probably friends with Pete’s Paleo down there. I think they sell at some farmers markets. So, if you’ve seen them around, definitely stop by and say hi, give them a try if you haven’t yet. I’m pretty sure we have a coupon code for them at, you can enter the code PODCAST and you will get 15% off your order, and I definitely recommend getting one of their sampler packs so you can try all the different flavors, because I think you’ll be surprised at just how great they all are. I think they’re like an espresso chocolate one, and a Blondie one with chocolate chips. I just remember opening them and eating them, and being like, wow these are really good {laughs}. So, give them a whirl, and let us know what you think when you try them.

Liz Wolfe: Diane. I love everything you said about Rickaroons, and I’m not trying to change the subject, but are you flying around in the Starship Enterprise?

Diane Sanfilippo: I am. I’m in my basement office, which is totally great for work, and totally awful for recording. Like that. That whirring? Just giant trucks drive by. I’m sorry. I don’t have a better recording studio.

Liz Wolfe: I just picture you in the Millennium Falcon or.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: You know.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: One of those space movies. That type of thing. So do you have any updates?

1. Updates from Diane [7:14]

Diane Sanfilippo: Umm, {laughs} updates. Let’s see, so you and I will be in Colorado this weekend. This weekend meaning, if you’re listening to this on April 24th or shortly thereafter, we will be in Denver on April 26th, that’s Saturday. And I will be all by my lonesome in Boulder on April 27th. Well, I won’t be by my lonesome; there’s lots of folks who are coming to that event, already RSVPd. So, check us out this weekend. Definitely come to Denver if you can. If you just can’t make it, if you’re in the Boulder area, come see me. Hang out with me on Sunday. I’m at Crossfit Roots on Sunday and we’re at Tattered Cover, check out the event listing on Balanced Bites. There’s a link on there, you can see exactly which location. I think Tattered Cover is a store that has a few locations. What else? A couple of other quick updates. I have a new page on Facebook. Because of all the craziness on Facebook that makes it really hard for us to actually reach you with our posts. For anybody who owns a Facebook page, I’m saying this with finger quotes, “own” a page, you notice that sometimes you’re posting and very, very small percentage of folks who like your page are actually seeing the posts. I’m trying to do what I can to make it so that you actually see what’s getting out there. And, you know, especially with events and cool stuff I have coming up and freebies and whatnot. That page is /dianesanfilippo wasn’t available. I’m not entirely that self absorbed, but I couldn’t even get /dianesanfilippo.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: When I was registering my page, I think my personal one is not even my real name. So, definitely follow me there. I’m updating that with lots of stuff, and you know, that’s it. I just wanted to tell people to go like that page, and kind of stay tuned. And the last update I have is, I am changing around some of the stuff that we’re loading up on the blog. In the coming weeks here, we’ve got lots of amazing content, as I always have free content, recipes, podcasts, transcripts, all that good stuff, but some of the extra goodies will only be available exclusively to my emailing list subscribers, so that’s really a fantastic way for me to stay in touch, again, with anybody who wants to know about upcoming events, about any special offers that I have, any new eBooks, all that kind of stuff. Whether I give out lots of freebies or whether it’s something that I am selling at some point in time, but if you want to know what’s going on, definitely subscribe to the emailing list, and you’ll continue to hear about different things that I’m giving away to my subscribers via the podcast as I have new things available. And I think by the time this episode airs, we will have a special mini e-book on digestive health, small bacterial intestinal overgrowth, oooh! Exciting! SIBO, but I know tons of folks have questions about that, and I just spoke with Dr. Allison Siebecker, so we have a special one-page guide, and a little mini report and the recipe. Some really cool stuff, so I’m excited to be able to share that with all of you guys. So go ahead to the Balanced Bites blog and subscribe there. And that’s it.

Liz Wolfe: Good job!

Diane Sanfilippo: Thems my updates. What’s happening on the farmstead?

2. Liz’s updates [10:35]

Liz Wolfe: My only update is that we’ve finally gotten a Kansas City book signing on the schedule! So, June 1, that’s a Sunday.

Diane Sanfilippo: Woot!

Liz Wolfe: It’s going to be at Coach Rut’s gym. So, I talk all about Coach Rut in the book. He’s just where my whole journey started is with Coach Rut, and we’re going to do the signing at his gym, we’ll do kind of a mini Q&A type chat/talk and then we’ll do the signing. Hopefully get some surprises, get some more, fun, exciting stuff besides me signing books, but of course, you know, anything could happen.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s exciting.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, it’s exciting. Hopefully by the time this podcast airs, I’ll have a little RSVP page going. So, go to, and look for information on that. You should be able to RSVP there. If you are in the Midwest somewhere and can make the drive, please do make the drive, because this is the one. This is, if I do other book signings in Kansas City, they will not be at Coach Rut’s gym, they will not be this special to me personally. So this one is going to be really awesome. I’m really, really excited about it. And folks can come out; it will be, actually, in overland park, which is just outside Kansas City, so there will be ample parking. You won’t have to negotiate the city, which you know us country folk don’t like to do. So that should be awesome. And I’m really, really excited! People have been waiting for this Kansas City signing. I don’t know why I haven’t done one yet; I haven’t even done a book release party yet.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: It’s crazy. Can I still do a book release party?

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s because… uh, sure.

Liz Wolfe: I can party anytime I want.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, I mean that signing could kind of be a party. It’s hard, because when the book comes out, you’re usually {laughs} you’re kind of still exhausted from the whole process.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: But, yeah, you definitely can. I did find out too; so this, again, is airing April 24th. I found out that the big roll out of Practical Paleo back into Costco stores for folks who have been finding it there recently, I think it was a test. I don’t know if it was a lot of copies or what the story was, but it’s going to be back in all stores, hopefully in a pretty major way this week, so I think it’s April 21st, would be kind of the start of the roll out. So you can look for it upon hearing this podcast if you hadn’t seen it yet, or if you want 10 copies, something like that? {laughs} I don’t know, it’s just going to be big stacks is all I know. It’s very cool.

Liz Wolfe: Go buy 10 copies of Diane’s book at Costco.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} And also buy 10 copies of Liz’s book.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} which is not at Costco.

Diane Sanfilippo: Wherever. Buy it out.

Liz Wolfe: Wherever you find it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} I can’t. Alright. So, onto questions?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes.

3. Considering Botox and fillers [13:30]

Liz Wolfe: I’m excited about this first one, because I think I have a little bit of a rant. So this question is, debating Botox. “Ok, I know this might be considered heresy to ask you two super-natural young ladies, but even though you’re both young and gorgeous right now,” why thank you, “one day, if all goes well, you will be older and your skin may not be as smooth and supple as it is today. What is your opinion on using Botox and/or fillers. Would you ever consider it? I didn’t think I would, but having been assured by my dermatologist that it is completely safe and relatively easy and painless, I’m thinking about giving it a try. I’m 52 and have very fair, freckly skin, and unfortunately spent too many of my youthful years worshipping a sun that only burned me back. I guess since Liz is known as the skin specialist, this question is mainly directed at her.” Ok, so this is my thing with the whole Botox question. {Laughs} this is probably a personal problem, but I get really irritated with, I have to be careful because this is drawn from my life personally. I don’t enjoy folks that bash Botox while doing things like drinking 6 diet cokes every day, which is probably dissolving their stomach from the inside, and poisoning them {laughs} you know, hour by hour, day by day. So, quite honestly, I think there are much worse things than Botox. Your body does metabolize it fairly quickly. You can take a mineral drop supplement, like a trace mineral drop supplement if you want to help your body in metabolizing Botox. But really, it’s there, and it does what it’s supposed to do, and then it’s out. And I think there are much, much worse things. I think we all {laughs} sometimes make decisions for beauty that may or may not be natural. So, I think Botox is probably the least of most cosmetic evils. I personally would probably not do something like breast implants, and I would probably hesitate before doing fillers, because I think what could potentially cause more problems is something that you put in your body that stays there. And that’s not for everybody. Some people’s bodies can adjust to these things well, but for example in the case of implants of any kind, whether we’re talking about breast implants or the birth control implants, or anything like that. You’re actually probably fostering some chronic, at least local inflammation in your body, that doesn’t go away until you take the implants out. So that’s maybe something I would think twice about, although of course I know many people with breast implants that do perfectly well, so no real judgment there. But I think that a probably a 6-diet coke a day habit is a lot worse than Botox. But also, one of the other recommendations I make in the Skintervention Guide is these little pasty triangle; not pasties. Excuse me. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: These little sticky things, what are they called, winkies I think?

Diane Sanfilippo: Frownies.

Liz Wolfe: Frownies! Frownies. I noticed quite some time ago that I was waking up with crinkles in between my eyes because I was frowning really hard while I was sleeping. So I started buying these frownie things that you basically put in between your eyebrows during the night that will kind of keep you from frowning while you’re sleeping, and mitigate that a little bit. I think the dermatologist is probably right. I know there are people who are like, oh it’s a toxin, blah blah blah. But really, you basically are paralyzing your muscles, the thing is metabolized, and the residual effects last a while. That’s pretty much what I think of it. So that’s that.

Diane Sanfilippo: Um, yeah. Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Anything to add?

Diane Sanfilippo: I have some family members who are {laughs} I don’t want to disclose.

Liz Wolfe: You’ve got to be careful.

Diane Sanfilippo: Full details, but definitely of that age, probably over 60 even, who just feel really happy with I think some Botox and even some fillers, which, you know, everyone just has to make that choice about what’s going to make them feel good and mitigate any risks or potential downsides. I’m kind of with you on, there are lots of things that people do that are harmful every single day {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: And I think everybody just has to make that choice. It’s a personal choice, and I’m also with you on the, I’d probably rather see somebody do something that has a potential to wear off. I think even the fillers wear off, right? They’re not…

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, eventually.

Diane Sanfilippo: They don’t stay for forever. So, I don’t really know. I’m definitely not an expert on that stuff. But, outside of a medically necessary heart implant type thing, you know, {laughs} something that’s medically necessary.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Implanted structure in the body, that always seems a little more, I don’t know, scary.

Liz Wolfe: It’s a little heavier.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know. If you’re kind of just weighing it out, or comparing it, whatever. That’s what I think. And I have used the frownies.

Liz Wolfe: Do you like them? I can’t remember if you liked them.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know that I do that overnight so much. I was trying it. They make an eye gel.

Liz Wolfe: Oh yeah, yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s kind of expensive but they last a while. And the reason, {laughs} this is a totally separate subject, but the reason I like them, first of all, I don’t really sleep that well. I wake up, I feel like I never even slept, so I’ve been doing the amber goggles.

Liz Wolfe: It might be the spaceship hovering outside of your house.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} It’s probably the spaceship. I wear the amber goggles now trying to reset my circadian rhythm health, and I just am a little bit of an anxious person where I’ve got a lot on my mind, and sleeping is difficult. But I know it’s important. I’m working on it. I’m always working on it. Anyway, I like that they make these eye patches, and I feel like those are really working because when I wear them, they’re like these eye gels, they look like they’re kind of absorbing, I don’t know, what is that stuff?

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t either. This is totally off topic so we can just forget it. And we’re not editing this out because we never do.

Liz Wolfe: No, we’re not going to edit this one.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

4. Responding to coworker’s negativity about gluten-free [20:09]

Liz Wolfe: We’ve given that question the royal treatment. Next up. Why avoid gluten if you aren’t celiac. Laura says, “Since making the decision to cut gluten out of my diet, I’ve been getting evil looks, snarky comments, and skepticism from my co-workers. When I say I don’t eat gluten anymore, the general response has been, why? You don’t have a medical condition. I find myself feeling protective of my choice; not wanting to share it, but often being forced to explain why I’m not going to eat that slice of cake. Now I just wish I had a doctor’s note saying ‘don’t eat gluten’ so I can have a valid answer for those who ask. I’m just wondering what you gals would say in a situation like this, especially when I get the argument that gluten isn’t bad for you. I’ve been listening to your podcasts and reading your books, but my co-workers have called this social-media induced, even though I’m getting my information from what I believe are reputable sources. Ugh. I’m so frustrated with this nonsense. I don’t understand why people would even care what I’m doing with my diet. Please help. I need a rebuttal to put these nasty comments to rest.” I got a rebuttal for you. It’s a 4-letter word starting with fuuuuuudge.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} What do you think? I can feel a rant maybe coming on.

Diane Sanfilippo: Honestly, first of all, people don’t ask me why I don’t eat it.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Because you give them the BRF. {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: BRF?

Liz Wolfe: Bitchy resting face.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, bitchy resting face. {laughs} I’m not generally surrounded by people who are questioning my food choices. I don’t work in an environment, {laughs} I don’t work anywhere, I work for myself, so I don’t have coworkers. But when I did have coworkers, honestly, I would just generally say, you know, I feel better not eating it. If you’re not imposing what you’re doing on them, everything they say to you is their issue reflecting out, coming out onto you. They’re just projecting their crap on you, and this is something that if you feel like you need to get a comeback to what they’re saying, you have to understand that nothing you say is going to matter. So, you’re inherent desire to have that one liner, or two liner, that’s perfect as a comeback; that’s a totally made up unicorn.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: It does not matter what you say.

Liz Wolfe: As opposed to a not made up unicorn?

Diane Sanfilippo: As opposed to a not made up unicorn. There are some real unicorns. I’m just saying.

Liz Wolfe: Right, of course.

Diane Sanfilippo: Unicorn sprinkles. That’s kind of my honest opinion there, is that it really doesn’t matter what you say. It’s their own insecurity, they’re own, either they just want to think it sounds ridiculous, or they are in that place where they feel like they could never give up bread. I think it’s important not to be judgment and not to make it as if you are better than them because you chose not to eat those things. Make your choices, and just be quiet about it. And if they’re making a bigger deal of it than you are, and they’re bringing it up and kind of creating that type of environment, I would just kind of, honestly, I would personally withdraw. I end the conversation. {rumbling} There goes the next space ship. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} You’re being pursued by imperial starships. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I have a few family members who will start talking about something related to food, and what is right or not right. Honestly, I think it’s also important to know that, I don’t know, we could be wrong. We could be wrong, and so I don’t think it’s important to get on some kind of crazy, defensive soap box about something that you feel right now isn’t a good food choice for you, and you believe that that’s for many different reasons, perhaps, but I just don’t think there’s any reason to go off on a tear in the workplace when, I don’t know, what if you’re not right? You know, what if in 10 years we discover we were all crazy and what if it isn’t the gluten, but it’s just our gut bacteria that’s really the problem, and eliminating the gluten is what helps us feel great, but if we were able to fix our gut bacteria, then we could eat it without a problem. I mean, I honestly believe those things. It doesn’t mean I eat gluten now, I think it’s not something I want to eat. I just don’t think there’s any reason to get super defensive or have an argument. I just think, step away, and get out of that scenario. I just don’t engage in those conversations. I’ve probably said that at least 10 times on this podcast; I disengage from those conversations. People who’ve been around me, like my fiancé, actually saw me at lunch one time with my family. My sister has been a vegetarian for a really long time; since we were probably in high school. She’s kind of dabbled back and forth, and she teaches yoga, so it makes sense that she has her different way of eating. She started bringing up nutrition and started talking about things, and I basically just shut down. I just don’t respond and I don’t talk about it. I deflect, and I try and change the conversation, because it’s not comfortable for me, and I don’t want to talk about something that somebody else inherently wants to talk about what they believe is true, and I believe something totally different, and I don’t believe I’m there to change their mind or to have a debate, so I just kind of withdraw and change the subject. So, I don’t know. Especially when it’s cake. Them putting that out to you is their feeling bad that they’re eating the cake.

Liz Wolfe: Totally.

Diane Sanfilippo: This is really what’s happening. They just feel bad that they eat the cake, and either they have no will power or they don’t know what’s healthy, or they just want to eat it and you choose not to, and they see you as stronger, and they are creating that scenario in their own mind that they think you’re better than them for choosing not to eat it. Even if you didn’t impose it, that view. I don’t know, do you think I’m crazy?

Liz Wolfe: No. I agree completely. I kind of always relish opportunities to be snarky and sarcastic and get people on their heels. But I think that you’re right, I don’t know that it warrants a response. I would probably say, if it were me, I would probably say something {laughs} like, oh I wouldn’t worry about. {laughing} And it’s kind of that open ended, well, I’m not worried about it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Such like the big sister thing to say.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. I mean, just kind of disregard.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know something you don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Just to kind of indirectly respond in a way that deflects all further discussion. Just to be that way. But, yeah. I agree.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think when we feel a little bit unsure and insecure of our decision, so if somebody said to me, why don’t you eat gluten, you don’t have a medical condition? I’d be like, and I’m trying not to develop one.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I mean, is that the only reason I shouldn’t eat cake, if I had a medical condition? I mean honestly, it depends on the person. You could very easily see me in a scenario where somebody would get a tongue lashing. I would come back with something really; it’s not even snarky, it’s just flat out mean if someone pisses me off. I have no tolerance for it, because I just think, as adults; this is where I’m ranting. As adults, I’m like, who are you to tell me what to eat? You know, like step off and shut up {laughs} you know.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Mind your business, and eyes on your own plate, you enjoy your cake, I’m over here with my apple, and I’ll see you later while you’re on the treadmill.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Or not on the treadmill.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} Or not on the treadmill! Oh. We just lost all 4 of the listeners we had.

Liz Wolfe: Yes we did. We probably actually lost them during the Botox conversation, but anyway.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} That’s the only reason anybody was listening to this episode, by the way.

5. Ways to help minimize effects of pesticide exposure [28:11]

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, Botox in the URL. Ok. Alright, next question. Pesticide exposure. “Hey ladies, love the podcast. Listening to you girls ramble is the highlight of my week.” Well, Diane, maybe we didn’t lose everybody {laughs}.

Diane Sanfilippo: Is this a question about injecting pesticides into your face? {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: No?

Liz Wolfe: No. Alright. “My husband and I recently moved to our dream house nestled in a beautiful mountain valley surrounded by great views of rolling hills and fruit orchards. Sounds perfect, right? Unfortunately, we’re now finding that apple orchards equals lots of spraying who knows what about 250 feet from our home pretty regularly. I feel like such a dope for not thinking of this before we bought the place, and moving again isn’t a feasible option right now. According to my functional medicine practitioner, recent blood tests show that I’m in the beginning stages of autoimmune thyroid disease, and I’m also in the process of recovering from adrenal fatigue. Add that to our desire to start a family, and I’m feeling a little overwhelmed by the pesticide issue. What can we do to protect ourselves? Are there any foods or supplements I should consider adding to minimize damage from pesticide exposure?” Well. This is; I mean, I know that this can feel a little concerning. When we moved out here to where we are now, I all of a sudden at one point after we had signed for the house, my stomach just dropped and I was like, did I even look and see how close we are to the nearest agricultural field, where they’re growing corn and soy? Luckily, we ended up buying pretty far from that. But you just don’t ever know what’s around you. I don’t see any industrial chemicals being sprayed but I don’t know, there might be some that I’m just not seeing, and thus maybe I don’t have the worry about them, and so maybe they’re less likely to affect me. I don’t know. But I do think there is a component of probably mental susceptibility that we can succumb to that makes us weaker. I’m curious whether you can find out what chemicals these are. Maybe they’re spraying beneficial nematodes {laughs} who knows? But that might be worth looking into if you really want to be well informed as to what associations any of those particular chemicals might have with, for example, thyroid issues or whatnot. And I don’t want to scare you, because this could be nothing. This could be something that’s not affecting you at all, and it could be completely coincidental. I don’t know. But I think probably the best think you can do is continue to keep your liver as healthy as possible. I personally think eating liver is a really great way to do that because all of the nutrients the liver requires to do its job effectively are actually in liver. So, that’s a good idea. If you wanted to go with some kind of plant-based supplement that can boost the immune system and maybe help support detoxification pathways, there’s a really incredibly expensive one that is actually the only one of its kind that I’ve found that is actually pretty decent when we talk about green juices and stuff like that. I’m not into that at all, but I really actually do like the, I think it’s called Pure Synergy, I think that’s the company. I’ll have to look that up right now. Pure Synergy. Do you know what I’m talking about, Diane? The synergy I think is what it is.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}. No. Because Synergy is used to brand a bazillion things, so you could be describing anything.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. {laughs} I could be the sick sigma retreat. I could be describing that.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: They do have this green superfood. I don’t think you need it, but if you’ve got a bunch of disposable income, and you feel like spending your money on something, that might be good. But other than that, I think you’re probably doing as much as you can as long as you’re eating a nourishing, nutrient-dense diet and keeping your liver healthy. Do you have any thoughts on this, Diane?

Diane Sanfilippo: Is there anything they can do with air filters for the house to help with that?

Liz Wolfe: Oh, yeah, that’s a great one. I have an air filter that we bought when we moved in here, it was a ridonculously expensive air filter, but a really really good one, and while you’re talking the next question, Diane, I’ll mute it and run upstairs and figure out which air filter that is. But you can do that; you can also look at you’re mattress, and you’re bedding, and all of the little things that maybe could add up. We have a mattress from Savvy Rest, which is just a latex mattress, our grass-fed mattress, and wool bedding from Holy Lamb Organics, which was pricy but it’s going to last forever and ever. I would also look into that for infant bedding for whatever you do, you know, if you start a family, look into getting a really organic non-industrial type crib set up, if you do crib, or if you do cosleeping, whatever you’re going to do, but looking into that. Minimizing toxins in the environment I think is a great idea.

Diane Sanfilippo: Probably a water filter too.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know what water filters do for pesticides, because I don’t know, I’m in the vortex, sorry.

Liz Wolfe: The big Berkey, I think, would be good, the Berkey filter.

Diane Sanfilippo: But I don’t know what kind of molecules are getting filtered out; I’m not sure.

Liz Wolfe: The big Berkey will; most water filters, like the Britta’s and stuff like that, they’re not going to filter any of that stuff out.

Diane Sanfilippo: No.

Liz Wolfe: But the big Berkey, we have a Berkey with the regular filters and the fluoride filters. So that’s a great idea, too.

Diane Sanfilippo: So there you go.

Liz Wolfe: There you go. I’ll run upstairs while you’re answering this next one.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, am I answering this one?

Liz Wolfe: I think we’ll both answer it, but you can answer first.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh geeze. Ok.

6. How to practice nutritional therapy in a state with restrictions [34:02]

Liz Wolfe: Ok. ND, Chiropractor, NTP, or life coach. Coco asks, “Hello ladies! Of course I love the podcast, books, blogs, etc, and have learned so much, it’s amazing. Thank you. My question, however, is not food related. After almost 2 years of paleo and working, still working, to heal myself and my daughters, it has become a passion. The changes in my 7-year-old have been incredible, and I’m sure we turned our path around and avoided ADHD medication by realizing she has food sensitivities and making changes. I can’t imagine how much less frustrating her first 5 years of life could have been had we known. To that end, I want more than anything to go to school to become a nutritional therapist, or something similar with hopes of having a practice geared towards helping families help their kids using nutrition as part of their therapy. I spend quite a bit of time in my girls’ school, seeing the kids, their behavior, and what they eat, and I’m convinced that at least some of them could be in a better spot if only their parents had the knowledge and resources to make a few small changes. I’ve listened to your podcast on how to become a nutritional therapist, and checked other resources as well. Here’s where I’m stumped, and wondering if you all might have some thoughts. The state I live in has laws in place regarding nutrition advice, and there’s very little way here by way of services in this area. As I’m reading it, in order to dispense nutrition advice, one must be an RD, ND, chiropractor, or other practitioner. While I would love to become an ND or perhaps a chiropractor, the truth is I’m not under 30, or even 40 for that matter. I’m busy with two young kids, and 8 years of school is impractical at this point in my life. I would love to study to become an NTP just because I find it fascinating and I want to learn it all, so I have a quick answer when someone asks how we’re getting enough vitamin B.” Vitamin B? “But school with no hopes of a career after might not work out so well when it comes to paying off tuition. I was curious if you had any thoughts as to how to practice in a state with these types of restrictions. Could I become a life or health coach? Just trying to figure out how to pass on what has been so life changing for us. Thanks so much for your time and your amazing work.”

Diane Sanfilippo: Eek.

Liz Wolfe: Eek! Start a blog and write about it. You can help people by talking about your own experiences without dispensing advice by starting a blog. I’m going to run upstairs and look at the filter.

Diane Sanfilippo: You’re going to run? Ok, you won’t know what I’m talking about, so I’m going to talk exclusively about Liz.

Liz Wolfe: No, I’m going to bring the computer with me.

Diane Sanfilippo: And all the weird things that she does. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I’m bringing the computer with me, so you better be good {laughs}.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Alright.

Diane Sanfilippo: But you’re muting?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. So, I think it is really important to understand what the legislation is in your state. There was a website at one point in time, and I think we linked to it from that podcast episode, or from the show notes, we linked to it that gave information on a by-state basis. You know, what type of certification you needed. Now, from what she’s listing out, I think the RD route is probably the least intensive. I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t take you more than a couple of years to complete an RD, and you could probably do that with some sort of remote distance type program. I’m sure there are multiple schools where you can do an online program, and there may be something local near you that you could do, as well, at night or something to that effect. So there’s that. If you want to go the route where you feel the most legitimized, if that’s something for you that feels comfortable, because I know for a lot of people, they want those letters after their names, that they’re not worried about it. But I honestly think that even if you were to get an RD, you’d still run up against problems because you’d then have a certification, or I don’t know what you’d call it other than that, a license that, if you start recommending things that are not what you were taught, you better have a really good defense. Because I know some RD’s who have been up against some of this stuff, where they have been questioned and their license is at risk, because they’re teaching about real food, and eating egg yolks, and that type of thing. I think there are a few ways to kind of go about this. I think a blog idea is really great, I think creating resources for people that, you know, they can access either for free or they can buy an educational download from you that serves as education, it does not serve as replacement for one on one advice, those are all things that I think we can all do, and as long as you are making sure that you list that out. I almost think it’s more dangerous, perhaps, legally to have the RD and teach things that are sort of against what you were taught with it. Not dangerous, but that you might lose that license. So I’m not really sure there. But in terms of which to do, look at what you want to do when you’re finished with it. There’s two parts to this; one is, what do you want to do, and how do you want to help people? And if you really want to help families and kids, and show them how to grocery shop, and show them how to prepare meals and what to eat, then becoming a chiropractor or an ND is totally useless. Perhaps even an RD, fairly useless at that point, because RD’s are really trained on much more clinical, what to do in institutional settings. It’s really not about health care, it’s really more about sick care. So, an RD in terms of nutrition is sort of like an MD in terms of health and functional medicine. If somebody who is maybe an ND or a functional medicine practitioner is kind of the equivalent on the other side of things when we’re teaching about real food. So, I think most people can help other people choose what to eat with kind of more of the health coaching, life coaching, NTP, NC, which is what I have, nutrition consultant certification, it was hundreds of hours. You can ask Bauman college, which is where I studied. I studied in person, they have a distance program. You can probably ask them to help you figure out how to use the certification in your state. One of the things that we’re always very careful to do is make sure we’re not talking about diagnosing or treating conditions. We support the body naturally in being as healthy as it can be if you are working with certain diagnoses. But we definitely don’t work with curing or any of that. That’s just something to kind of keep in mind. I think there are lots of ways to do it, and I wouldn’t be paralyzed by the potential struggle of just kind of figuring out which route to take. But I would just look into what are some of the curriculums that you want to study, and how do you want to use it when you’re finished. That was the other side; I said there were two things. One is, you have to enjoy what you’re learning. So that, for me, was one of the reasons why I didn’t want to pursue the RD. Because I was like, I don’t think I can handle a curriculum that I feel is not right, and I also didn’t want to do what most RD’s are set up to do upon completing that program. So, those two things together for me led me away from the RD and led me to something like the NC certifications, which for me was a 2-year period of time. It’s now, I think, much shorter, I think it’s an 18-month, or whatever length of time you may take at home to complete it. I believe there is an internship you have to do at this point, as well. But it’s a pretty intensive set of courses, so it’s no joke. And I don’t know the full curriculum of the NTP program, but if you’re interested in the biochemistry and all of that stuff, I definitely recommend the Bauman program. I know a lot of people ask us about the IIN program, Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and I think if you already know about paleo and want to teach about this, and you kind of have your direction there, it’s not a program that I recommend. It’s not quite as heavily in-depth on the biochemistry and clinical application as my program was, so that’s just kind of the one other tidbit I’ll throw out. Have you returned from the cave, Liz?

Liz Wolfe: I have.

Diane Sanfilippo: Any other thoughts here?

Liz Wolfe: It’s the; no, you did a good job.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} You didn’t hear anything!

Liz Wolfe: I did, it took me 2 seconds to run upstairs and come back down. Yeah, you’re right about all of it. {laughing} I’d just be reiterating what you already said, I think. If I went any further. So the air filter we have is a very large, very space eating one called the IQ Air HealthPro series. It’s pretty major. Sometimes I get anxiety shopping trigger finger, and I was thinking, we’re moving, I don’t know, this is an old house, and I have to click purchase, put an air filter on a credit card. So, I’m not advocating you do that, but it’s a darn good air filter. Alright.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

7. [42:59]

Liz Wolfe: Next up. Nutrition response testing. Ingrid asks, “hello Diane..” {laughs} “Diana and Liz.” Diana?

Diane Sanfilippo: No.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} “I’m a 45-year-old female who, in 2009, was diagnosed with celiac disease. Previous to the diagnosis, I was unwell for 2 decades. Since my early 20s, I regularly suffered from digestive distress, anemia, migraines, endometriosis, anxiety, chronic fatigue, face rashes, and brain fog that were unsuccessfully treated through the conventional brew of pharmaceutical drugs. For the past 2 years, I’ve followed the autoimmune paleo protocol that you shared on the podcast and in your Practical Paleo book. The content of your book and podcasts have been life changing and motivating for me. Listening to your podcasts inspires me to stick to this autoimmune paleo diet in a non-paleo America. I’m 100% dialed into this way of eating, and have additionally increased my understanding of nutrient dense foods, FODMAPS, personal care products, cleaning agents, sleeping habits, and daily stressors. I no longer take any pharmaceutical drugs, and many of my symptoms have abated. As I recognized that my digestive system is not completely healed, I’ve decided to try nutrition response testing, NRT, in July 2013. So, here’s my question. “ Is this a question from 2013, or maybe I just read that wrong? Maybe she began trying NRT in July 2013? “So here’s my question. Do you know anything about the science of NRT. The chiropractor has explained that nutrition response testing uses a simple muscle nerve reflex test to evaluate the true function of every muscle, bone, organ, and system of your body. Does anyone know if pushing down on my arm really provides the chiropractor with correct feedback and centering on my food sensitivities, nutritional deficiencies, or internal organs?” Diane and I discussed this a little bit off the air, and my feeling on this is some of these more old-school, out there alternative type means for identifying certain deficiencies are interesting, and they can be helpful for some people some of the time. I don’t know that I would always use this particular method as my one and only means for identifying issues. So, by no means… I never disregard a treatment just because it’s not cool, or mainstream, or.. you know what I mean? I have no problem with all these types of alternative means for identifying issues. I have no problem with alternative therapies whatsoever. I think a lot of them get suppressed and pushed down, and even questioned, because folks are still really mired in the, like you said, the sick-care model of identify a symptom, give it a new name that sounds fancy and medical, and then shove some pharmaceuticals at the problem. So I’m far more likely to explore some of these alternatives before I go that route. So I think there’s a place for all of them, but I think you always need to back these things up with one or two other means for identifying the same types of deficiencies. So, if you’re looking at maybe physical indicators of deficiency, as well as the NRT, and maybe some lingual neuro stuff. There’s a bunch of different modalities that you can use. Also, ask yourself if what they’re telling you is reflected in what you’re experiencing physically. I think the big red flag is when there’s clearly nothing wrong with you and then somebody pushes on a spot on your arm and tells you there is. So always apply your own wisdom to these things. But I also think if you’re working on something, there’s no reason to discard the information that you get through an alternative type identifier. Diane?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think where it can be more useful is when lab testing just doesn’t help.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Or, you know, food sensitivity testing is just very nebulous. It comes back with 50 foods, and the things that you might be sensitive to might be changing all the time, depending on your exposure. I do have a friend who was working with a functional medicine chiropractor for at least a year, just trying to figure out what’s going on. She’s just got a lot of confusing issues with her body, and I think a lot of it is rooted in stress, which she and I have talked about tons of times, but even if you figure out a potential root cause, you’re still trying to deal with it at that moment. And if you’re dealing with so many food sensitivities where you feel like you can’t eat anything, and you’re having trouble keeping weight on, which was kind of the case with this friend of mine. On a weekly or every other week basis, she would go in and bring certain foods, and he would sort of just do the muscle testing, and be like, this is working fine for you right now, this one isn’t. And you know, it worked for her. I don’t know how much of that is placebo effect, or whatever it is. But placebo effect is still real. {laughs} It still works to some degree, so I definitely think in the case where lab testing is leaving holes, and this might be helpful, go for it. I wouldn’t personally use it to tell me whether or not I have a thyroid condition for example, and then take thyroid medication based on it, but for something that’s a little more lifestyle oriented or supplements and things like that, I’d give it a shot.

Liz Wolfe: Give it a whirl. As Kevin McAllister would say, I’ll give it a whirl.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Totally.

8. [49:06]

Liz Wolfe: Silliness. Ok, this next one, am I reading the full exchange between?

Diane Sanfilippo: No, you can just read the question and I’ll read the bit of exchange here.

Liz Wolfe: Ok. So this is a question that Diane actually got one to one, and …

Diane Sanfilippo: This was a podcast question.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: But I ended up, I typically don’t respond because I can’t. There are so many questions that come in, and I ended up typing a really quick email back, and I’ll go through what the answer was, here. My response, I should say.

Liz Wolfe: Cool. Alright, so Raina asks, I hope I pronounced that name correctly. “Hi Diane and Liz! Massive fan from New Zealand checking in, land of hobbits and second breakfasts.” What’s not to love right there? “Firstly, let me say I adore you two ladies so much. Diane will be happy to hear that after seeing the paleo style of eating picking up amongst my group fitness instructor colleagues, I decided to Google paleo recipes, and Practical Paleo was the first thing that came up. I purchased the book, along with Robb Wolf and Dallas and Melissa Hartwig’s book, and have not looked back. Ok, massively long winded question here; please don’t fall asleep. No really, please don’t. You’ll make me cry, and it’ll be an ugly cry.” {laughing} “I made a dramatic change in my life about 7 months ago, and that was to move out of home. This might not sound like such a big deal to most, but I am of Asian heritage, and there is a large social stigma with being unmarried and moving out, even in 2014. My mum, and if this question makes it on the podcast, you’ve got to say ‘mum’, not mom, mum.” {laughs} Well, I did. “even still lies to people and tells them that I’m still living there just so that it’s not considered shameful. Anyway, speaking of my mum, she has never liked cooking ,and is what I like to call an assembler of food. Pour something out of one packet, another thing out of a packet, heat it up and done. I was so excited to branch out on my own and actually learn how to cook properly from scratch. With Practical Paleo tucked under my arm, I started the process of learning how to make nourishing meals. I loved the process, and more importantly, loved how I felt. I had more energy, my sleep was deeper, and better, and I didn’t feel sluggish in my performance, both professionally and in the gym. I managed to work out a system where I would prep my meals on Sunday for the week for breakfast and lunch. I know Diane is probably dying inside due to the lack of variety there. I live on my own, so making a recipe that serves 4-6 and eating it over 5 days is just easier and more economical for me. I don’t own a scale, but from about 3 weeks ago, I started getting comments from people that I had lost weight. I haven’t observed that sort of change, but I know I’m lifting heavier in the gym and my recovery is good. Here’s the thing; my classes that I teach are at 6 a.m., and this is the same time I train, and a 45-minute drive from my home, and a subsequent 45-minute drive to my day job. My routine has been get up, drive to the gym, teach my glass, drive to work while eating a banana with almond butter, eat breakfast, and have a shower. Lunch I would eat at work, too. I was one day hauled into a meeting with management and told I couldn’t continue to eat my meals in the office anymore because it smelled bad.”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} can someone say, oh no you didn’t!

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh no you didn’t!

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} “Insert sassy finger wiggle here. My breakfasts tend to be breakfast sausage with an assortment of veggies and avocado if it’s in season, or bacon and a scrambled egg with an assortment of veggies and avocado, or a slice of Diane’s swirly crustless quiche and veggies and avocado; get my drift? They didn’t comment on any particular meal, but said anything I’d been eating over the last few months had smelled so bad, that whenever I ate they had to open the doors up to let the smell out.”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} “they don’t understand why I won’t eat similar breakfast to everyone else, like cereal and milk, toast, low-fat yogurt, or like the lot of them, wait for it, don’t eat breakfast at all. Dun-dun-dun! On a similar note, they also don’t understand why I won’t eat sandwiches for lunch, either. I listened to the earlier podcast about the woman that had challenges with not being allowed to eat or store meat at her work, and tried the sardines in the car trick” {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} “I’m sick of these mother-un-uh sardines on this mother-un-uh plane!” {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: #sardinesonaplane.

Liz Wolfe: “To my surprise, they also told me I couldn’t do that either, as the smell of sardines stayed on me.”

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m sorry, I’m going to pause you for a second. You can imagine how livid I was reading this email. I was like, seriously?! Seriously? As I was reading it. Ok.

Liz Wolfe: “same with canned tuna and salmon. Brushing my teeth afterwards apparently made it worse, as I smelled like minty fish.” {laughing} “Yeah, I can understand why they didn’t go for that. At least I didn’t try making out with someone after; that could have gotten awkward.” {laughs} “then I thought for breakfast I could try blending up an avocado based smoothie. Ah, that was a whole can of nope.” {laughing} “please let someone get that oatmeal reference. They objected to the noise that the blender makes.” Do you work in a monastery? I’m like…

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: so confused. “My current work around is not sustainable. My gym very kindly allowed me to heat up my breakfast in their microwave, and no they don’t think it smells bad at all, so I eat my breakfast while driving to work. This is around 7 a.m. This part of my routine is ok. The unsustainable part is this; for lunch I’ve been eating shredded chicken salad, as that has been the only thing that hasn’t been complained about.” She must work in an office full of really sensitive pregnant people, or something. This is insane.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Pregnant monks. “even hardboiled eggs have been complained about because of the smell. The monotony is really getting to me, never mind the fact that I end up ravenous by the time I leave work, which wasn’t a problem before. Do you ladies have any ideas on what meals I can have for lunch that won’t smell and offend the management and my work place? I feel like I have lost control and the happy, strong me that I have discovered over the last few months has disappeared. The foods that I am not allowed to eat are: Fish, any fish, all of the fish” {laughs} “be it fresh, canned, smoked, shellfish, beef, pork, bacon, any form of cooked veggies, eggs, veggie-based smoothies.”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: What the hell is going on?! {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: So, I wrote back, because I was, that was my reaction. I was like, this is ridiculous because I’m picturing this.

Liz Wolfe: Call the ACLU or something.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, she’s in New Zealand. So I was like, I’m just going to say a couple of things because I’m unaware of the legalities in New Zealand and this kind of scenario just bugs the poop out of me.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: And I was like, is there an HR department you can talk to about this, because it doesn’t seem like this is anything they can really dictate what you eat based on the odor. And I said, I supposed your coworkers deserve respect, and if you were making smelly food all the time, it would be rude; but come on, this is pretty ridiculous. I mean, cooked vegetables? There’s always an odor in an office when anybody is eating anything besides processed non-food. So, if you’re going to sit there and eat yogurt, or cereal, or bread, or pastries, it’s not going to smell like anything because it’s not even alive! It’s not even food! So of course it doesn’t have an odor! But everything else you eat is going to have some sort of odor. Perhaps, you know, raw salads won’t, but that’s not going to go too far. And we all know there are people out there who can’t eat lots of raw food for digestive issues, and blah blah blah. Anyway, I was just really irritated, and I just asked her if she could get another job. I said, honestly, would you want to deal with people like that? Who do they think they are? And yes, I’m serious. But I said, to be honest this would make me eat sardines and hardboiled eggs at my desk daily just to spite them. Maybe I’m just rude like that, but I have no tolerance for this kind of thing. If people are going to eat pizza around me that smells like junk, I’m going to eat sardines and they can just grow the heck up. So, that was my response. Because, you know, I know sometimes people are like, no I’m really looking for a real answer. This is a real answer. I don’t have tolerance for workplace antics like this where people are trying to shape my life, that’s the one piece of sanity that I have, which is the food that I’m eating, when I’m in a situation where I have to come to this office, and do this work that you’re dictating. You can’t also tell me what to eat. That’s not ok. So, I just don’t have any tolerance for it. So I wrote back to her and I said that, and she said, first of all when she got the email back she assumed it was an automatic reply, which we do have auto responders with lots of information because, I’ll let you guys know about 9 out of 10 questions y’all send me are things that are already answered on the website and we know you’re going to ask, but we try and make it easier and easier to find. Anyway, so I did respond to this question, and she said, with regards to HR, there is a department, but as our parent company is a big Indian firm, the HR department is over there. So I guess HR is not local to her. She says they’re a nightmare to deal with, and she’ll admit that she’s thought that if there’s a chance of dealing with HR or finding another job, she’d rather find another job. She said I did have that thought at the back of my mind through all of these meetings with the manager to discuss whatever offending food item had me feeling like I was being a diva and being really unreasonable. A normal employee of the company would just comply, and I wasn’t, therefore I’m not a good worker. That was my thought process. Well, that was her thought process, not mine.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: She had wondered about finding a new job. She said I deliberately left that thought out of the question, and I’m so glad you mentioned it because now I don’t feel so bad about having given it that thought. The job market is really dire in New Zealand right now. She’s got amazing talented friends with degrees that can’t find jobs that are bagging groceries. Hey, no problem bagging groceries. I did it for quite some time. So, she said she’s going to have to deal with it for a while and whatnot, and never stop ranting. She liked the reply. You know, there’s only so much you can do. You do the best you can with eating foods that don’t have an odor, but at the end of the day, honestly, I think that this is imposing on your human rights. I don’t know what the legalities of this are. Liz, can you even imagine if I worked at an office where they came to me with this? I would…

Liz Wolfe: I mean, unless this is an office where they literally; unless they office on a bus, and they’re all sitting right next to each other and sardine juice is spilling on people, management should be humiliated that they even brought this up and gave her a list of foods she cannot eat. That is the… from an employment perspective, they are putting themselves in extremely hot water, I would think.

Diane Sanfilippo: I just don’t know what the laws are. If it were this country, I’m pretty sure {laughs} you would have a lawsuit on your hands.

Liz Wolfe: How can such a beautiful country that is, you know what? She works in Mordor. That’s the problem.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Is that the….

Liz Wolfe: You need to get a job in the shire.

Diane Sanfilippo: Lord of the Rings whatever it is.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Do you hear me with the science fiction fantasy references today?

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t even know these movies, but I have friends who recently honeymooned in New Zealand, and took pictures all around this little wonderland world, I have no idea anything about it.

Liz Wolfe: Wonderland world. I wonder if she could get some of these cricket bars from Exo with the cricket flour. They’re so good. And they don’t smell like anything. And they’re animal protein.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Well, bug protein.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ugh, take that, company.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Really? Cause I’m eating crickets.

Diane Sanfilippo: I used to bring eggs and bacon and cooked kale and whatever to the office, and it would have a scent. And, I didn’t give a hoot about what anybody thought about it.

Liz Wolfe: I’ve sat next to you on a plane while you eat hardboiled eggs and sardines.

Diane Sanfilippo: I really don’t care. Because the smell of beer, and the smell of pizza is nauseating to me when I’m not eating it {laughs} so, I don’t drink beer anyway, but I think pizza can smell good. But Domino’s? That stuff is nauseating. Or even fried food. Like the smell of deep fried seed oil is often nauseating to me. So. Anyway. It’s not my place to tell people that they can’t eat it. If it were the workplace, though, I don’t know I think the only thing that would ever come up is if you were in a workplace where, and I don’t know what she does, if you were in a workplace where what you were eating was misaligned with the values of the workplace.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: And I don’t know, again what the HR issues are there, but we knew that was a sardine issue, right, the woman who wanted to eat sardines or something like that, and it was an animal rescue type of place. So we get why they’re saying that, and so for her to go eat that in her car, that’s her prerogative, those are your rights, you get to do whatever you’re going to do, but for someone to say you can’t even eat the food in your car because when you come in you smell like it? I mean, seriously, I would have opened up a big ol’ can of, you know.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m afraid of explicit labels.

Liz Wolfe: I’m all about employers being able to set the rules of employment, but you’ve got to do that before somebody signs on to work there.

Diane Sanfilippo: Right. Expectations need to be set. Yeah, so from this perspective, my fiancé is a chiropractor, and there was a time when one of the assistants had come in, or somebody had come in, I don’t even know who it was, had come into the office with some kind of, I think it was fast food. And the smell was really rough. Like, it was that seed oil fried food smell. And it did permeate the office, and I’m like, that does not align with what we’re teaching here.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: You know what I mean? But there was no rule about that. It wasn’t like, you can’t bring this into the office, which that’s something as an employer, you maybe figure that out along the way, and as future people come in, you let them know that this type of thing isn’t really aligned with what you’re doing. I think that that could be a fair way to approach it.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: But, yeah, I don’t think they can retroactively impose that. I don’t know. Somebody from New Zealand tell us the scoop.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Alright, so we’re at, even a little over an hour almost, so we’ll close it out there. If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please subscribe to the podcast and help us spread the word by leaving a review in iTunes. Until next week, you can find Diane at, and you can find me, Liz, at Thanks for listening. We’ll be back next week.

Diane & Liz


  • Therese

    Hello Diane and Liz,
    Thank you, I love all that you do and have been so pleased to have found you two and your podcasts, ebooks and physical books too. Thanks for all that you put out and share with us to improve our health and well being.
    I am from New Zealand! I am responding to the office and workplace issue. We’re not all like that – honestly! :-)
    I really think the real NZ workplace issue there relates to the fact that this young women is eating with pleasure and enthusiam with her new cooking skills. She has a healthy metabolism, lifting weights and living the paleo goals and is loosing weight – looking good. They are jealous!
    The response to her eating, I believe stems from the fact those in the office are starving from eating nutrient poor foods in their contant battles to loose weight. They are seeing an alternative way of eating that doesn’t match their understanding of nutrition and weight loss and they are reacting to a disconnect with this and what they have been told about weight loss.
    I believe that if she went back to HR and told them that they have no right to dictate what her food choices are for lunch or breakfast, HR would back down very quickly because they cannot make these demands. It may be time for her to become indignant and react! :-) Kiwis aren’t always very good at being assertive.
    Anyway, keep up the great fight and never stop the rants! Love them!

    • Raina Singh

      Heya Therese! I’m the one who submitted the question – you’re right about not being good at being assertive, seriously every meeting I had with the management about my food I left in tears because they made me feel so bad about my choices. They even had a companywide meeting to tell everyone that they couldn’t heat up smelly foods in the workplace to ‘be considerate’. It was so random since I’ve been with this company for 7 years!

      HR are in India and are a massive pain in the ass so I’m looking for another job at the moment 😉 I’m an IT developer so hopefully I can find something soon.

  • Therese

    Hello Diane and Liz,
    Thank you, I love all that you do and have been so pleased to have found you two and your podcasts, ebooks and physical books too. Thanks for all that you put out and share with us to improve our health and well being.
    I am from New Zealand! I am responding to the office and workplace issue. We’re not all like that – honestly! :-)
    I really think the real NZ workplace issue there relates to the fact that this young women is eating with pleasure and enthusiam with her new cooking skills. She has a healthy metabolism, lifting weights and living the paleo goals and is loosing weight – looking good. They are jealous!
    The response to her eating, I believe stems from the fact those in the office are starving from eating nutrient poor foods in their contant battles to loose weight. They are seeing an alternative way of eating that doesn’t match their understanding of nutrition and weight loss and they are reacting to a disconnect with this and what they have been told about weight loss.
    I believe that if she went back to HR and told them that they have no right to dictate what her food choices are for lunch or breakfast, HR would back down very quickly because they cannot make these demands. It may be time for her to become indignant and react! :-) Kiwis aren’t always very good at being assertive.
    Anyway, keep up the great fight and never stop the rants! Love them!

    • Raina Singh

      Heya Therese! I’m the one who submitted the question – you’re right about not being good at being assertive, seriously every meeting I had with the management about my food I left in tears because they made me feel so bad about my choices. They even had a companywide meeting to tell everyone that they couldn’t heat up smelly foods in the workplace to ‘be considerate’. It was so random since I’ve been with this company for 7 years!

      HR are in India and are a massive pain in the ass so I’m looking for another job at the moment 😉 I’m an IT developer so hopefully I can find something soon.