Podcast Episode #142: Almond Flour, Sun Exposure, Cast Iron Skillets, Kids & Fruit, Natural Hair Dye, Diane’s Kitchen Tip

Diane Sanfilippo Nutrition Myths, Podcast Episodes 3 Comments


1.  Diane’s updates [5:31] 2.  Liz’s updates [12:45] 3.  Is almond flour really that healthy to cook with? [19:05] 4.  Exposing more skin for optimal vitamin D? [26:47] 5.  Cooking with cast iron that’s been pre-seasoned with unhealthy oils [32:07] 6.  Should kids eat so much fruit? [38:47] 7.  Natural hair dye recommendations [44:10] 8.  Kitchen tip [50:22]


The RIGHT WAY to remove a tick

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Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone! Welcome to episode 142 of the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Liz, that’s Diane, and we’re here to rock your world with all kinds of real food knowledge. And, other stuff.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Mostly other stuff.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Mostly other stuff. About our sponsors. Pete’s Paleo, bringing fine dining to your cave. If you’d like to make eating paleo a little easier on yourself, check out Pete’s meal plans. They are great for those nights when you’re on the run, out of time, and need real food fast. And, we’ve got a special announcement about Pete’s Paleo, now offering 21-Day Sugar Detox friendly meals. Amazing!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: It’s going to make things that much easier for folks on the 21-Day Sugar Detox. Why is that funny?

Diane Sanfilippo: Amazing! I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Amazing. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I just like to laugh.

Liz Wolfe: Awww. I miss Happy Endings. You know what I always say?

Diane Sanfilippo: What?

Liz Wolfe: Did you ever watch happy endings?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, because you told me it was hilarious, and then I agreed.

Liz Wolfe: And then it got ripped away from us.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yep.

Liz Wolfe: You know I always say like Max used to say. “Crap dammit.”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Like today, when Scout regurgitated in the car, right on the exact spot where there was no blanket.

Diane Sanfilippo: Awww!

Liz Wolfe: I said to myself, crap dammit! In a Chicago accent, like Max would have done.

Diane Sanfilippo: He’s now on the Mindy Project.

Liz Wolfe: I know!

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s crazy.

Liz Wolfe: And that Wayon’s guy has been in a couple of things. Oh he’s back on New Girl!

Diane Sanfilippo: He’s back on New Girl! {laughs} It’s hilarious.

Liz Wolfe: He was so much better as Brad in Happy Endings.

Diane Sanfilippo: Agreed.

Liz Wolfe: He’s boring as Coach.

Diane Sanfilippo: He’s totally awkward on New Girl.

Liz Wolfe: Unnecessary.

Diane Sanfilippo: Coach and Winston are both horrible, horrible characters on New Girl.

Liz Wolfe: Superfluous.

Diane Sanfilippo: Basically, Schmidt. I was calling him Smith, and that’s definitely not appropriate. Schmidt is like the only hilarious character on that show. Nick!

Liz Wolfe: Nick.

Diane Sanfilippo: Nick’s pretty funny.

Liz Wolfe: Nick gets me. He’s funny.

Diane Sanfilippo: Whose up next?

Liz Wolfe: Up next. Chameleon Cold-Brew. Our favorite organic, fair trade, smooth and rich cold-brewed coffee. I posted about it today on Instagram. Iced coffee with a little coconut milk, yum, yum! CCB is available at lots of grocery stores nationwide. Check their website for a store locator, and stay tuned for online ordering to come back. And of course, don’t forget to tag us in your Instagram pictures when you enjoy your Chameleon Cold Brew. We’d love to see it. And finally, our newest sponsor, Rickaroons. These delicious macaroons are made of high quality ingredients, like coconut, dark chocolate, cacao nibs, and almond butter. They taste amazing. They are perfect to keep on hand when you’re on the go and need a quick bite, or for a great post workout snack. A perst-werkout snerk.

Diane Sanfilippo: They’re good for a purse workout snack.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Also post workout.

Liz Wolfe: That too. Check them out at and get 15% off your order with the code PODCAST. We’ve already seen lots of folks posting their pictures to Instagram, which is fun, telling us how much they love their Rickaroons. So I have a question.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes.

Liz Wolfe: For you Diane.

Diane Sanfilippo: Question.

Liz Wolfe: Question. Which is better? Ok. Macaron versus macaroon?

Diane Sanfilippo: The macaron. That is the French little cookie that is made mostly from almond flour and powdered sugar. Generally those are gluten free, but those are those sometimes colorful.

Liz Wolfe: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: Sandwich cookie things. That’s a French macaron.

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Versus macaroon, which is more like the little haystack of shredded coconut and deliciousness, however you want to mix it up. Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Alright. So they are intentionally different?

Diane Sanfilippo: Indeed, they are different.

Liz Wolfe: Indeed.

Diane Sanfilippo: And I am really sad that I can no longer enjoy the French version, because that was my little treat down at the ferry building in San Francisco. It was like a little macaron cookie. I don’t even know how to pronounce it, so.

Liz Wolfe: Macaron. Well, that’s what I was wondering. If it’s macaroon, but they just forgot the o?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I’ve heard people pronounce it as just macaroon, but it’s a different type, so it’s not spelled the same way, and it looks entirely different. Much harder to make.

Liz Wolfe: There’s a place in Kansas City that does macarons, and I just had a couple of those little.

Diane Sanfilippo: Macaron!

Liz Wolfe: Macarons! At the crepes place at Chez, I don’t know, chez Frenchie. Wherever it was.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Chez.

Liz Wolfe: On the west side. Really good. They do gluten free crepes there, P.S.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, those are typically, the macaron cookies are typically gluten free.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, they’re kind of one of those snack that, you know, you have to ask about it but they’re pretty much always made with almond flour.

Liz Wolfe: They were delicious!

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

1. Diane’s updates [5:31]

Liz Wolfe: So what’s going on in your world?

Diane Sanfilippo: In my neck of the woods. So, let’s see. Last week, according to when we’re airing this episode, last week was a bit of a transition for some of my social media accounts. So, folks may have noticed that Instagram, I’m switching things over, kind of like you’ve done with Real Food Liz, switching things over to just @DianeSanfilippo, so just at my name. So people won’t be totally confused as to what Balanced Bites even is, because truly the name came from the original business, which was a meal delivery business, and it doesn’t really totally make sense anymore. It doesn’t fully apply to everything I’m doing, and I really want to make sure that people understand that balanced bites, at this stage, is sort of what we’re doing with the podcast, it’s what we’re doing with the online workshop, but obviously I have lots of other things going on with the 21-Day Sugar Detox and Practical Paleo as a book. Some people actually thought that Practical Paleo, they’re like, oh I have your Balanced Bites book! I’m like, there is no Balanced Bites book {laughs} I don’t know what you’re talking about. So, just to kind of keep it clear and make sure that everybody knows that they can come to my website, which you can get to from, if you just spell it once or type it into Google and click to get to it, it won’t be a problem, you’ll be able to get there pretty easily. That’s pretty much it I think. So just look for that, if you’re following me on Instagram, I think you’ll automatically be following me. I think the same will happen with twitter, but if you go to @ tag me, you may need to just remember to start typing with a D instead of a B. I don’t know. Anything else on that that I need to tell them, since you’re currently my resident expert on switching your social media situation?

Liz Wolfe: I have nothing.

Diane Sanfilippo: OK.

Liz Wolfe: Nothing informative, nothing witty.

Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. Ok, so the only other thing I want to reveal a little bit more information about, because I kind of hinted at it last week, but the 21-Day Sugar Detox new online program situation, I’m really excited because I found what I think is going to be a great solution for people to get a lot more information, a lot more help, support, more guides, just a lot more of everything to help with the 21-Day Sugar Detox, even beyond what’s in the books, because obviously a printed book, as you know, it has its limitations and there’s always more that we want to tell people, and more we want to help people with. So, what you’ll find in the next, probably month or so, releasing with the new online program. It’s just going to be part of the 21-Day Sugar Detox, and the online program will be called the 21-Day Sugar Detox Toolkit. But you’ll be able to also look into kind of expanded options of what you can get altogether. So, that’s just kind of a little hint on that, I’m not really going to say too much about it because I want folks to stay tuned, but there will be some availability to get the books that way as well. And if you already have the books, you’ll be able to just get access to the online program, you won’t have to buy the books again. Anyway, lots of stuff coming up with that, so just kind of stay tuned to my website at, or you can stay tuned at All those places will hook you up. I think that’s pretty much it. Oh, one other thing. Shopping lists. If you guys are not already on my emailing list, my subscribers are getting really awesome stuff every single week, able to kind of either update you with something new or remind you of something you may have missed. So, recently I sent out 5 shopping lists for some of your favorite stores. I’ve got Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Costco and then Natural Grocers and Sprouts. I know those last 2 are a little bit more regional, but also working on some for places like Target, Sam’s Club, BJs, and even more regional stores like Safeway, Shop-Rite, etc. And Publix is also on our list. Just kind of getting information to you guys about what are the products that I would recommend looking for in these places, and they are not all necessarily just telling you where the best place to buy everything is, because the prices are going to vary near you, and you may have access to one store versus another. I know a lot of people have asked me, you know, where do I find the best prices on everything? I don’t know. I don’t think that’s a static thing, so I’m not sure I can advise on that. But, just giving you the list and lots of folks are already telling us, you know, they’re finding products they didn’t even know existed, which is awesome. So, that should be fun for everyone. So make sure you subscribe over at my website on One L, two P’s.

Liz Wolfe: My goodness.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know. If my name were only Wolfe. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: No, no, no. Because then everyone would think you were Robb Wolf’s wife, and they wouldn’t spell it with an E on the end.

Diane Sanfilippo: And then that URL would already be taken, anyway.

Liz Wolfe: Exactly.

Diane Sanfilippo: And I will be changing my name when I get married, but not in the public facing way. So.

Liz Wolfe: You traitor!

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I mean, it’s Mills. It’s so much easier. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Some people don’t know that I did not change my name when I got married.

Diane Sanfilippo: I wouldn’t! If my last name were Wolfe, I would just leave it.

Liz Wolfe: Well I mean, I just, it is a great last name, I love the last name. It’s not a thing that I feel like is right for everybody, but I just think that it is a choice. You don’t have to. I don’t know why it bothers me so much when people are like, oh my god, you didn’t? And I’m like, no. You did?! Like, what’s the big deal?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Either way, do whatever you want. It doesn’t change the value of your relationship.

Diane Sanfilippo: No.

Liz Wolfe: It’s just which last name do you want? You know. Some traditions, some things we call traditions, are… you know what’s a tradition? Paleo eating and taking walks and being outside. Those are things that people have been doing for millennia. We’ve only been changing our last name for a couple hundred years. It’s like, it’s not a real tradition if people haven’t been doing it for longer than a thousand years. So, my little rant on that. It’s like, you don’t have to feel bad if you don’t, and you don’t have to feel anything if you do. It’s really ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Actually, funny enough, Robb Wolf’s wife didn’t actually take his name.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, there you go.

Liz Wolfe: There you go.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’ve been ready to ditch my last name since I probably started having to sign it.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: And I truncate signing it anyway. I write like 4 letters and then a line. I’m like, I’m not writing all of this.

Liz Wolfe: Diane Mills is going to be easier.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it is.

Liz Wolfe: Easier for people to type into the search bar. Which I know is exactly why you’re doing it.

Diane Sanfilippo: No. What are you talking about?

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’m not changing it for anything associated with this. So, everyone listening, don’t look for me that way. You won’t find me.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’ll be anonymous as my real self.

Liz Wolfe: You better go buy that URL while I’m answering one of these questions.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s already taken!

Liz Wolfe: No way!

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Awesome.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it’s taken. I don’t know who it is, but.

2. Liz’s updates [12:45]

Liz Wolfe: Better find out. Ok. So, I have a couple of updates, but first I want to tease our.

Diane Sanfilippo: She’s an author. Sorry. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: She is?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: What.

Diane Sanfilippo: But her name is actually Dianne,

Liz Wolfe: But she kept the other one…

Diane Sanfilippo: But she bought the other one so it would redirect.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think she writes…

Liz Wolfe: Vampire fiction?! Warlock fiction? Wizard fiction?

Diane Sanfilippo: On the contrary. I think she writes vampire. Or no, sorry. {laughs} I think she writes Christian books.

Liz Wolfe: Oh.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I don’t think anyone will confuse us.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: When they go to the website, it’s not at all about nutrition.

Liz Wolfe: People are so confused.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, there you go. Ok.

Liz Wolfe: So, next week we have George Bryant and Julie, PaleOMG Julie on the show talking about The Paleo Kitchen, their new book, which I’m super excited about. So George is Civilized Caveman; everybody knows George and Julie, so they’re going to be on the show talking about The Paleo Kitchen.

Diane Sanfilippo: We’re you making seal noises in there? What the heck was that?

Liz Wolfe: Did you hear something? I’ve got two little dogs here.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: One of them probably did make a seal noise. Earlier on, I had to mute myself while I yelled at Scout for chewing up a rug that doesn’t belong to her.

Diane Sanfilippo: This Dianne Mills author has written a lot of books, by the way {laughs}. I’m sorry.

Liz Wolfe: How?! {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I’m still recovering from the first one. Sheesh.

Diane Sanfilippo: The Texas Bride’s collection.

Liz Wolfe: Oh no.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know. Anyway, I’ve gone down a rabbit hole. I digress. I’m coming back.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Everybody come back. Don’t pause it. Don’t leave. We’re going to answer questions eventually. Alright so my updates. I was going to tell everybody, I get some homestead questions here and there, just people want to know what’s going on. So, yes it is tick season, and I know last year I was freaking out about ticks and I would not leave my bed in my bedroom because I felt like there’s no way that ticks can get all the way up the stairs and all the way into my bed, so if I just stay on the bed then it will be fine.

Diane Sanfilippo: That seems like a flawed theory.

Liz Wolfe: No, it’s 100% true. It makes total sense.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: It did to me at the time. You know, I heard that diatomaceous earth would kill ticks. I’m not kidding you, I spread that white powder, diatomaceous earth powder, all over my entire downstairs. The couch was covered in it. The entire downstairs was like a cloud of diatomaceous earth for like 2 weeks. That’s how freaked out I was. But sometimes, you just need time, and this year I’m much more balanced about it. Actually, people would be proud to know that I’ve pulled ticks off of our pigs, just straight up with my fingers. Bemp! Pulled it off, put it in a little bucket, and then murdered.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ba-bam.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Whopah! So, I win. And, so really I had like the whole winter to think about my tick season strategy, and it has been so, so much better this year. We’ve only seen a couple. It seems like they’re attracted to white fabric. I don’t know if they think it’s skin, or what they think, but we tend to find them on our row covers, but that’s about it. And then way back in the part of the property that the guinea fowl don’t get too often. But I have a post on my blog that talks about safe tick removal. We should not be removing ticks by making them back out on their own by putting anything on their butts or covering them with anything or making them back out. Because when they back out on their own, of their own volition, they will basically regurgitate into your bloodstream. So you really do just want to…

Diane Sanfilippo: Ugh-ugh!

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I know. It’s disgusting. But we’ll put the tick removal post in the show notes if we remember. But I use a little thing called the tick key. That works, or you just have to yank them out yourself. So, that. And the tick strategy we’ve been using this year is, hopefully I’ll have the post up on the blog about it by the time this show airs, but we have a flock of guinea fowl that are amazing. They are a happy little band of tick murderers. But those won’t work in the city, because they are extraordinarily loud and obnoxious. So, sorry city dwellers, that might not work. The chickens are just not as good at picking up ticks. Chickens are kind of lazy. So that, and then on my person, I’m using a fractionated Red Texas Cedar oil, I think is what it’s called, and it is amazing. I spray it all over our animals, we use their livestock dip. We put it on the pigs, and they’re no longer getting ticks. The ones that are on the pigs are already dead. So it really does work. So I’ll get the brand on that and put that up as well. We also have sprayed beneficial nematodes on our property. I have no idea if they’re working, but it seems like a cool idea, so we’ve done that as well. And this year has been much, much better. I remember, I told you last year they were crawling up the doorframes, arms outstretched waiting for us to walk by, and I haven’t seen any so far near our house. So that’s good news. What else? So what we’re growing in our garden, we’re attempting to grow, fingers crossed here because last year was no good. Carrots, cabbage, cauliflower, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, tomatillos, strawberries, and onions. And another thing. I’ve been posting some pictures to Instagram lately of our pigs. Our two little, well, hogs. Our large black hogs. They’re tiny at this point, they’re pretty small. But, yes they’re very cute. Their names are Lloyd and Harry, but yes we’re eating them. So, don’t get too attached. {laughs} The goats, right, are around for milk, which we’ll probably do next year. But the whole point of this homesteading thing for us is to grow and raise our own food. So, of course, they’re very cute, we give them names, although we don’t really use them. We just kind of do it to be funny. But these are pigs we are raising for food. And yes, it’s going to be hard, but we’ve been preparing ourselves for that for a long time, at least a year, more than that probably, and they will become food. So just so people know, these aren’t pets. They will go bye-bye. They will become bacon. But we’re going to give them a good life in the interim.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mmm, bacon.

Liz Wolfe: Bacon. So that’s it for me.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Ok. Questions?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, questions.

3. Is almond flour really that health to cook with? [19:05]

Liz Wolfe: Questions. Almond flour in recipes. Dee says, “I make my almond milk and was looking in internet.” {laughs} “I was looking on the internet for uses for the dried pulp, which I blenderize to make flour. I came across a warning regarding quantities of almond flour in amounts greater than a couple of tablespoons is not healthy to eat. It’s not healthy to bake with it as the only refined flour substitute ingredient. Can I substitute the same amount of almond flour for coconut flour in recipes, and does coconut flour give a coconut flavor to food? I find the taste of coconut oil when cooking eggs is not a good flavor pairing. I appreciate your comments. Your Practical Paleo book has become my bible.”

Diane Sanfilippo: Ohh, ok. So, she is asking a couple of things here. I’m assuming it was a she; we don’t know. Just Dee. But, I’m just going to start backwards. Coconut flour does sort of impart a coconut flavor to the food, just like coconut oil. And you absolutely cannot substitute coconut flour for almond flour in recipes. Definitely not 1:1. I think there are a lot of people who have information about all the different grain free flours, and I know that I actually, my team is helping me work on a guide to grain free flours that we’re going to put out pretty soon, but I’m pretty sure, I think two L’s, and also Danielle Walker at, probably both have information on their websites about different ways to substitute different flours. That being said, with regards to the health issues around almond flour, I’ve gotten this question a bunch. First of all, I’m not sure that your dried pulp, just blended, is exactly the same as blanched almond flour. I think blanched almond flour is made from almonds that are blanched so that the skin is removed, and then it’s finely ground, so I think the water content in those almonds, and in the resulting flour, is a little bit different from what you have, which I would consider to be more of an almond meal, or as she called it, pulp. So, I actually think that the dried meal or pulp is better for things like coating chicken strips or something like that where the moisture content isn’t really as much of a factor, and it’s making things a little bit crispier. Or, using it as a topping if you’re baking like a fruit crumble or something like that, which would kind of play into her question here about how much to use. If you bake fruit and just use maybe a quarter of a cup of this almond meal that you’ve made, or pulp, you’re going to limit how much you’re using, which I do think is a better approach. But the big other issue here is, is using 1, 2, 3 cups of almond flour in a recipe really so healthy is, I think, one of the root questions here, and I know I get this question a lot. I’m not sure if you do, Liz, but neither of us really bakes that much. I actually can’t really bake that well. I pretty much always screw it up. I’m also now allergic to almonds anyway, so I can do things with cashew flour. I don’t recommend that people do it very often. I think there are a variety of reasons why, and in terms of it being not healthy, I think the issue came up with a concentration of things like physic acid that you’re getting from almonds, as well as potentially the omega-6 content of almonds. Further from that, is actually cooking the almond flour, the almond meal, with that omega-6 content. So, I don’t think that the almond flour being cooked, and then potentially oxidizing those omega-6’s, I don’t know that that’s as much of an issue as people think it is, for the following reasons. One, I don’t think the internal temperature of the baked goods gets that hot, so somebody can correct me if I’m wrong, and I’m like 99% sure I’ve already addressed this on the podcast at some point, but if you stuck a thermometer into, say, a loaf of almond flour bread, I’m pretty sure it doesn’t get as hot as, like a pan would, for example, if you’re cooking with a fat or oil.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, that’s one thing. Number two, if you’re using ground up almonds, you do technically still have the whole food there, so there are other components in the almond that are present that are protecting that omega-6 from being damaged. So, this is different from something like almond oil. So if you were cooking exclusively with the oil, and it’s isolated from the protein, from any fiber, from all the rest of the components of the whole food, then you make it a little bit more susceptible to damage that way, which is kind of that argument against cooking with all the vegetable oils and seed oils and all that stuff, even consuming them in the first place. So, there are a lot of issues here, and I remember years ago when we were all worried about, first of all, eating too many almonds, second of all, baking with them or should we eat raw versus roasted. I remember I asked Matt LaLonde this, and I don’t know, this was a few years ago, if his answer would still be the same, but his response to me was, if it’s a whole almond and it’s roasted, the fact that it’s the whole thing intact is protecting it from that oxidation more so than if you just had the omega-6 extracted from the almond, and then you’re exposing that to heat. So it’s a different situation there. Long story short, I think that people shouldn’t freak out so much about what happens to the almond flour when you’re using it in these baked goods, but I don’t think that it should be something that you’re making every day or even multiple times a week or very often. A lot of people are sharing recipes that are using nut flours, and it’s because a lot of recipes that are already out there are pretty much already grain free. So, you don’t need a new roasted chicken recipe necessarily, although we’ll give you that, but I think a lot of the folks who are giving you recipes that use these flours is just to show you how to use them. But they are by no means implying that you should be making these things every day or even every week. Every single person I know who is a paleo food blogger who makes those treats either isn’t eating most of them, or is doing it very, very infrequently. Just to kind of give you guys that heads up. It’s there for special occasion or a treat, but it’s not meant to be, you know, eat almond flour bread every day because you know how to make it now. It’s just something that you can use to substitute for a special occasion or you have people coming over or something like that. I do personally think that there might be issues that arise from switching from eating tons of grains to eating tons of nuts and seeds. I don’t think we should rely on tons of nuts and seeds for the bulk of our calories. I think we should be mostly getting them from fresh meats, vegetables, seafood, eggs, etc. Long answer to a short question. That’s my forte. You’re muted my friend.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I had to because the dogs were barking.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s ok, I’ve been muting because I’m clearing my throat over here, and it’s loud outside.

Liz Wolfe: Yes it is, in New Jersey.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m standing on my treadmill desk. Just standing.

Liz Wolfe: {snorts}

Diane Sanfilippo: I already walked 2.5 miles this morning. Woop, woop!

Liz Wolfe: Walk outside.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know, but I’m working!

Liz Wolfe: I know. Stop working.

Diane Sanfilippo: I do. We take the dogs for a … the dogs. The dog. We only have one dog. We take the dog for a walk.

Liz Wolfe: You have one and a half dogs. Mason is basically a dog.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mason’s kind of a puppy.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: No, I definitely do.

Liz Wolfe: I know.

Diane Sanfilippo: But I like to do this while I’m working, so I don’t get as angry about the fact that I’ve been at a desk working. But I have to do the productive things on the computer.

Liz Wolfe: Every 20 minutes, set an alarm, and look up, 20 feet ahead of you, for 20 seconds.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: 20, 20, 20.

Diane Sanfilippo: OK, I’m not looking at you anymore.

Liz Wolfe: Ok, good.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

4. Exposing more skin for optimal vitamin D? [26:47]

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Next question. Going topless?! Followed by an interobang, which is my favorite type of punctuation.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Daniella says, “hey Liz and Diane. I absolutely love the show, and I tell everyone paleoite I know about it. I have a quick question about vitamin D. I know that vitamin D is absorbed through the skin, well it’s made after conversions in the liver and kidneys,” {laughs} “ and that the time of day, season, altitude, skin pigmentation, latitude, and many other factors determine the amount of UVB that reaches your skin and gets absorbed. However, I recently learned something surprising. I read on a website that the amount of skin exposed is important. At least 40% of the entire skin surface should be exposed for optimal vitamin D production. The torso produces the most, legs and arms some, and the hands and face very little or none at all. Go topless! The website said that, not me. I was just wondering if you could tell me if this is legit. I always sit outside at lunch here in sunny Miami, but I’m now concerned that I’m hardly getting any vitamin D because I’m fully clothed. Thanks in advance for your answer. I was going to ask about sunscreen recommendations, but you’ve answered that one already. Liz, I love the new book. I’ve definitely LOL’d several times already. Diane, I’ll never forget that day I found Practical Paleo at Barnes and Noble and stood there for over an hour looking through it. It’s pretty much the paleo bible. You girls rock. Thanks for all you do. Sending lots of sunshine and warmth from Miami.” Welcome to Miami!

Diane Sanfilippo: I think this is paleo in Miami. She, yeah. Oh, maybe I’m just exposing her now?

Liz Wolfe: Rut-roh! Well, that’s ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Like, literally exposing her, if she’s going to start tanning topless? I’m just kidding. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Go topless. Well… go ahead.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know. Anyway.

Liz Wolfe: Paleo in Miami, I think I’ve seen on Instagram.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I actually …

Liz Wolfe: Jealous of her life.

Diane Sanfilippo: She used to be New York City, and she basically befriended me at John Durant’s book launch party. I was total by myself, just random party at his book launch. Like, yep, I just showed up, totally alone, I have no friends.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: No, I was meeting Pete and Sarah Servold there, but I was standing there by myself for a good 20-30 minutes, and she came up and made me not look like such a loser. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: So, thanks. Thanks girlfriend!

Liz Wolfe: Oh. My best girlfriends! Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: We did that last week. We can’t get over it.

Liz Wolfe: Never will ever get over it. So this is pretty much true. It’s not like you’re going to get no vitamin D if at least 40% of the entire skin surface is not exposed. But it really is kind of a matter of real estate. So you do want to have your arms, shoulders, torso, legs, like the major parts exposed if you can. And I don’t really know… obviously the different parts of your body don’t necessarily generate as much vitamin D when compared to one another, but I don’t know that the face doesn’t produce any. I don’t know if that’s true or not, or maybe it’s just not enough to make a difference, or maybe it doesn’t produce any. I don’t know. I do know that every cell in our body has vitamin D receptors. But I don’t know what that says about vitamin D production. So basically, the sun’s rays action on our skin stimulates the synthesis of vitamin D along with, which actually uses cholesterol within our bodies as a raw material for that synthesis, so it’s not like we get vitamin D exactly from the sun, but it’s just the way it’s generated is through the sun’s action on our skin. I would say, the more skin exposed the better, and the more boobs exposed, you know, the better for everybody.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: So, yeah. Go topless. I don’t see any reason not to, as long as it’s legal. Cover up your nips though. {laughs} Can I say that.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} You just did.

Liz Wolfe: I just did. You know, keep in mind that if you’re exposing skin to the sun that doesn’t get a whole lot of sun exposure, you will need to be pretty patient with that. So, expose it for a shorter period of time than maybe you were intending to just to get that melanin synthesis going. But yeah, the more skin that’s exposed the more vitamin D production you’ll get.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I don’t think that it’s something to be worried about if you, you know, are clothed and you’re getting that exposure. Especially in Florida, because you’re getting it so often. But, yeah, the skin that is exposed more often I definitely would think is not quite as able to produce as much. Just like anybody who has darker skin, you know, they can’t produce as much so they need more time. More exposure.

Liz Wolfe: Keep in mind, too, that light clothing, kind of loosely woven clothing, will block most UVB, but it will not block most UVA. So, we don’t necessarily want that. So if you’re going to be covered up in the sun, either make it with tightly woven clothing that will block all of it, and whatever parts that you’re trying to block. But if you’re out getting sun but you’re covered, you’re not going to get vitamin D. I don’t know if that was a question that was in this question, but who knows.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

5. Cooking with cast iron that’s been preseasoned with unhealthy oils [32:07]

Liz Wolfe: Next one. Preseasoned or used pans, can they be saved? Stephanie says, “My husband and I recently inherited some awesome cast iron from my dad. I know he used some pretty terrible oils to cook with; Crisco and soybean to name a few. Is there a way to unseason and reseason these pans without ruining them? Same goes for some pre-seasoned lodge pans we have. They are preseasoned with soy oil. Didn’t know that when we bought them.” This is really interesting to me, because I just read this really long blog post from some scientist somewhere on the process of polymerization, and actually, it’s kind of a conundrum, because cast iron pans are actually seasoned best by long chain polyunsaturates. So, like soy oil, and ….

Diane Sanfilippo: Everything we don’t want people to eat.

Liz Wolfe: Exactly! Everything. But to my knowledge, polymerization is a process that basically changes the structure of the oils, and would not necessarily affect us from a dietary standpoint. But, what’s your take on this, Diane?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I was going to say I wouldn’t really worry too much about it. I would try and reseason it, and maybe even reseason it a couple of times. I really can’t imagine how much of that is the original seasoning might be leaching out. I just don’t think it’s something I would worry about at all. I’ve tried to season a cast iron skillet with coconut oil; it just doesn’t work that well.

Liz Wolfe: Nu-huh.

Diane Sanfilippo: And I think that is because it’s too saturated. It’s not the polyunsaturate, really at all. I would probably try and opt for lard or a blend of even lard and olive oil. You know, it’s a lot of the monounsaturates, but blending it is going to keep some of that oxidation level down. Using anything that is as unsaturated as possible to help season the pan, but within the scope of, safe to heat at some level. You know, as much as I don’t generally cook with olive oil, heating it at all is not the problem. It’s heating it to high levels where it’s smoking and all of that, which most people end up doing. I’ve watched a lot of people cook, and most of their pans get to that scorching place, so. Anyway.

Liz Wolfe: Don’t be judgey! Don’t be judgey of the way I cook.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not a judgment, it’s an observation of fact.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yeah. It’s not like we’re getting our pans in some magical place. Our pans have all come from the same place, so whether it’s grandparents and parents who seasoned them with junky oils, or brand new lodge pans that have already been seasoned, it’s not like those of us who teach about this have some other magical source for cast iron pans {laughs}.

Liz Wolfe: I do.

Diane Sanfilippo: Really?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, you go through the unicorn door, and then through the…

Diane Sanfilippo: Right.

Liz Wolfe: Forest of swirly girly gum drops.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} And then you walk through the Lincoln tunnel.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Oh man. I just don’t think; I’m imagining this pan that she inherited is awesome, probably because he used all those terrible oils in it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: It’s perfectly seasoned with long chain polyunsaturates.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I mean, we’re getting so much more exposure to these oils every time we dine out that, I get it. They want to know what’s the option here, but use them. They can be saved. Reseason them however you need to. If they’re already seasoned, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. I feel like you have to reseason them over time at some point.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: I really wouldn’t worry too much about it. I also pretty much always throw fat in my pan anyway, so it’s creating a little bit of a barrier, I think, there.

Liz Wolfe: What do you think about the posts floating around in the interweb, the vast goo of the interwebs, about not using cast iron because of the iron content?

Diane Sanfilippo: I think if you were exclusively using cast iron, and you potentially have an iron overload problem, I think it’s one of those things where, if you have a problem with that then maybe don’t do that all the time.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: But I don’t think that cooking in it is causing the problem. I don’t think that’s going to cause a malfunction at a cellular level with how you metabolize iron.

Liz Wolfe: Fear mongers! So what do you use to cook in, then?

Diane Sanfilippo: I wouldn’t cook anything acidic in cast iron.

Liz Wolfe: Would you cook acidic stuff in stainless steel?

Diane Sanfilippo: You can do that. You can do an enameled cast iron, so it’s got that coating, which is pretty much what I would use for things like chili or tomato sauce. You do like Le Creuset or, doesn’t have to be Le Creuset brand, but that type of pot where it’s got that cream colored enamel inside.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: So that’s a cast iron pot, but it has that coating that protects it, and the reason is that the iron will react with those acidic ingredients, so anything that’s tomato based, or if you’re using citrus, or something like that, I wouldn’t do that in just a straight up black cast iron skillet. So, yeah I use cast iron, enamel cast iron, stainless, and I don’t know how safe some of these white nonstick ceramic skillets are, but I have a couple of them and I use it if it’s for, like pancakes which I don’t make that often. So, if I’m really worried about something delicate sticking, like pancakes, those are pretty much the only thing that are super delicate, or maybe scrambled eggs. Which, I don’t eat scrambled eggs that often. That might be a time I would try that ceramic nonstick. I’m just totally not sure about how safe that is, so it’s not something I want to do every single day.

Liz Wolfe: Cool, that’s pretty much what I have hanging around. Cast iron, I don’t have any enameled cast iron, but I do have a clay pot that we brought back from Greece.

Diane Sanfilippo: You don’t have any Le Creuset pots at all?

Liz Wolfe: So expensive, dude!

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh my gosh. Well, we’ll probably have to get you one at some point.

Liz Wolfe: Will you give me that as a gift for your wedding? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} For the wedding I’m not having?

Liz Wolfe: Yes, exactly!

Diane Sanfilippo: We’re getting married in secret, not inviting people or making a thing of it.

Liz Wolfe: That’s very Braveheart of you.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s very, I don’t have the time or patience to Bridezilla out and plan things.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Can’t do it.

Liz Wolfe: Funny.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

6. Should kids eat so much fruit? [38:47]

Liz Wolfe: Ok, next up. Kids and fruit consumption. Abby says, “previous to a paleo diet, I followed a raw food vegan diet consisting of mainly fruit. I’ve lowered my own intake without an issue, but my children love eating fruit. They typically have a smoothie in the morning with banana, avocado, fresh coconut cream, and blueberries. During the day, they’ll eat another two bananas, an apple, and a dried fruit and nut snack. They also drink fresh coconut water. Along with that, they eat lots of raw and cooked veggies, a variety of meats, eggs daily, lots of fish and avocado, cod liver oil and butter oil, ghee and butter, and all paleo foods, but still include some rice crackers and white rice. 100% gluten and dairy free except butter and ghee. I do not give them fruit juice. My son suffers allergies like sneezing and itchy nose, which is 90% better since going paleo, but still there. Their health otherwise is very good. We live in a very tropical climate. I use only organic house products and buy organic food, and keep the house dust free.”

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Lots of information there. I think the question is,

Diane Sanfilippo: Should they eat so much fruit.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think if they are healthy and otherwise are also consuming good quality meats and fats, I don’t really have a problem with it. I think it’s a totally individual thing. If it seems like they are reacting at all to just having a lot of sugar, then it might be too much for them, but it’s not sugar the same way refined foods and junky stuff would be to have two or three pieces of fruit in a day for a kid. I just don’t think it’s that big of a deal. I don’t know, what do you think?

Liz Wolfe: I agree. I get a little bristled by all of the folks that freak out about, fruit should only be a garnish! Or, only be a dessert! I mean, yeah, that’s the way I treat fruit, and I think it’s a good rule of thumb, but when it comes to kids, they are so active. If they live in a tropical climate, they’re burning a heck of a lot of calories, their bodies just trying to cool themselves off, I think it’s totally appropriate.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and even for example on the 21-Day Sugar Detox, we’ll have moms or moms and dads who are doing the program, and they ask about what to do with their kids, and we’re like, absolutely don’t limit them on fruits or sweet potatoes or any of that. When it comes to kids, it’s really just about getting the processed junky stuff out of the house, and it’s not about limiting their choices or their intake further. And I think that’s enough of a reset for kids.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: They don’t need any of this refined ho-hos and pop tarts and all that stuff, anyway.

Liz Wolfe: Like you said, especially if they are getting of the fish, and the cod liver oil, the butter oil, the ghee. As long as that’s not getting crowded out by fruit. If you’re giving your kids smoothies, which, god forbid I say a smoothie is ok in certain situations. But if you’re giving your kids smoothies, you can throw some pastured egg yolks in there, you could put a little dash of some of the orange cod liver oil in there. There’s a lot of stuff you can add in there to boost the nutrient content. It’s not a bad strategy, I don’t think. I do think for little, little kids. First foods, I think it’s really important to get in egg yolks, and those really healthy fats and healthy animal foods. I think people focus a little too much on the different carbohydrate foods at the expense of things like egg yolks and animal foods when kids are really, really little. Those are really important, and definitely shouldn’t be sacrificed in favor of things like this. Especially if the kids are not sugar monsters and they’re not downstairs playing Xbox.

Diane Sanfilippo: Right.

Liz Wolfe: Screaming for another smoothie, then I think it’s good to go.

Diane Sanfilippo: Which I would bet doesn’t happen because of the natural response to real food carbs. We’re not getting this hyper normal response.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: We’re not getting the calories without the nutrition, which is what really happens with a lot of these other foods. There was one other thing I was thinking about there, oh. With the first foods thing, I mean it’s not really what Abby is asking about, but I’m with you on that, and I know that parents are like, every kid is so different. Some really are picky, and I get that. I think it’s just the time if you do have a very young child, and you try putting certain foods in front of them and they just go for the sweet ones, naturally. Children, when they develop taste buds, they have an aversion sometimes to the more bitter foods, because that’s just how their tastes are wired up. Breast milk is pretty sweet, and so they’re coming off of that onto real food, just continue to offer everything, and make sure that you do try and include as much as possible without just relying on the sweet or the carby foods initially, because it is really important to expose kids to a lot of different flavor profiles. I think that they grow into some of these patterns, and unless we’re doing our best to kind of expose them to a lot of things, it can really limit what they’re willing to eat as they get older, and I don’t mean, they’ll eat raspberries but not blueberries. It’s not that big of a deal. But if they’ll only eat fruit for years and years, then that might be a little bit stressful for you.

Liz Wolfe: Alright.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. Last one.

7. Natural hair dye recommendations [44:10]

Liz Wolfe: Last one. Natural hair coloring options. Diana says, “Hi Diane! Love your podcast with Liz. I hope I’m not repeating a question, but I’m hoping you can suggest a type or brand of hair color that is less harmful than what is typically used in most salons. Notice, I spelled color the Canadian way.” I did notice. It was my favourite. “I’m 52 and would like to keep the grey hair hidden for a while. Thanks.” I think this is more for me.

Diane Sanfilippo: Indeed.

Liz Wolfe: Unless she’s assuming you have a ton of grey hair.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t, but I haven’t colored my hair in a while now.

Liz Wolfe: This kind of all depends on what your end color goal is. I use henna, and I have for years. I’ve started ordering from Their stuff is fantastic, and they have a ton of different techniques and ideas on there, including techniques and ideas for covering grey with henna. You can use indigo. Now, don’t pick up a box that says it has henna in it and think that it’s the same thing. The only henna is henna, and it’s an herb, and it’s a powdered herb. It’s green, and it smells like pot. The only indigo is indigo; it’s an herb, it’s also green, and it smells like, I can’t remember. But don’t pick up a box of something that says natural and contains henna or indigo or whatever. Because for the most part, those are going to contain other crap that’s actually responsible for dyeing your hair, with like a little squeeze of some kind of henna extract to make them able to market it as natural. That stuff; don’t do it. I know people swear by it, but it’s not doing what we think it’s doing. So, you can order pure henna and goop that on your head and dye your hair that way, and you can achieve a range of colors, from really bright coppery red to medium brown, all across that spectrum, to black if you use indigo after you use henna, and if you do it all properly. But, that’s not for everybody. You can’t dye just any color with henna. If your hair is blonde and you want to keep it blonde, or even light brown is a little harder to achieve without some of that reddish undertone from henna. So, there are a couple of different brands of more natural hair dye, and if you just Google around for natural or ammonia free or whatever, you’ll come up with some stuff. I believe Aubrey organics has some hair dye that might be ok. I’ll have to look it up, I know I talked about it in the Skintervention Guide where different brands that work. Some salons actually do offer more ecofriendly and less, I don’t know, less synthetic chemically type hair dye, but you kind of have to look for it. I’m on the website right now; let me look and see. Hair and scalp; hair color recommendations. Ok, so a couple of brands. Eco Colors, Herbatint USA, Nature Tint, and Palette by Nature. Those might be some to check out, to see if you can make those work. They’re not perfect, but they’re better. I think that’s it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Do you use any special hair stuff? No?

Diane Sanfilippo: Indeed, I do not.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Indeed I… don’t.

Diane Sanfilippo: Nope. When the Skintervention has hair color for me, maybe? No, I haven’t colored my hair. I probably had it lightened so I’m sure that’s extremely nontoxic. Ha. Ha.

Liz Wolfe: Ha. Pew-pew-pew!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} But I haven’t had anything done to it in months and months and months. So I don’t know. I mean, I don’t have great advice on that.

Liz Wolfe: The good thing about henna, what I love about it, is it really does make your hair stronger. It’s almost like…

Diane Sanfilippo: I only did it once, so I didn’t really have a ton of feedback on it. I didn’t feel like I even noticed anything from it, so I just maybe didn’t chose a good shade, or who knows what.

Liz Wolfe: Well you also, you know I’m learning more about this now. I don’t know a lot about how some of the companies besides, how they guarantee dye release, because henna is a plant that has kind of a red, I don’t know what it’s called, a red dye in it, and in order to activate that dye and to release the dye from the powdered henna, you have to basically soak it in an acidic medium. You can check for dye release by just preparing your henna, and at some point whenever you think it’s ready, following the instructions that you’ve been given, you can put a little bit on your skin, like the inside of your palm. And you can see if, after a few minutes, it dyes that spot on your palm. Like basically a coppery color, then you know that the dye has been released. And then there’s this whole reaction between the keratin in your hair and the henna dye, and that’s all how it works. So, I honestly don’t know how these brands, like I used to use Mountain Rose Herbs, I know a lot of people like Morocco method, and Lush has a henna based hair color. I don’t know how they are guaranteeing dye release, because they are definitely not doing it the nerdy sciencey way that henna for hair explains on their website. So I’m just not sure how they’re doing that. I’m a little, now, the more that I know, I’m a little bit, not suspicious, but just like, I don’t know, I’m just curious because there’s really only one way henna works. And that’s through that kind of dye release via an acidic medium. But that’s neither here nor there. Just do your research before you use any kind of henna products. Because it is different. When it’s legit, it’s definitely different. I love it, I’ll always use it, but it’s not for everybody. Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alrighty.

8. Kitchen tip [50:22]

Liz Wolfe: Do you have a kitchen tip for today, Diane?

Diane Sanfilippo: Ooh, I do. So, we’re kind of {laughs} easing into this new thing we’re going to do, where we’re actually going to have segments for the podcast. And in this segment, I’ll pop the Invisalign back out of my mouth.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, gross.

{snap crackle}

Liz Wolfe: Eww!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} It’s like a piece of plastic.

Liz Wolfe: I’m not taking that out.

Diane Sanfilippo: I forgot I was talking again, so I was like, oh I don’t have to say anything else, I’m done. Ok, kitchen tips. So I posted a picture on Instagram last week, at this point. One of the things I do all the time, when I’m making salads, and I have this thing where I like my salads to be really, really well dressed. And that doesn’t mean tons and tons of dressing, it just means that kind of everything gets coated. You can achieve that pretty well by just tossing the dressing in with the salad and everything else. But I think people probably notice sometimes that little bits of carrot or maybe pomegranate seeds or things like that might get dropped to the bottom and maybe not coated as much or who knows. So, anyway. One thing that I do when I’m preparing salad is, I will chop all of the toppings, as I call them. It’s everything except the leafy greens, and if I’m mixing any herbs in I leave those out, too. So anything that can sit in dressing for a little bit longer and won’t get soggy, I’ll put in a bowl first, in a big mixing bowl, and I’ll go ahead and put my dressing in there with that. And actually what I do most often is I whisk together my dressing before I even put the veggies in there, so I just use one bowl, whisk my vinegar and oil, or whether it’s citrus or something like that, lemon juice, whatever. Whisk that together, put all those carrots and cucumber and cherry tomatoes and all that stuff into the dressing to sort of sit and marinate while I’m chopping everything else. And then that can also sit and wait until you’re ready to sort of dress the salad, so your greens won’t get wilted and soggy, but the rest of your veggies will all have that really good taste and it will kind of be infused. So, that’s my little tip for this week. So you can check out my Instagram, and maybe we’ll be able to pull in the picture that I posted of that. It’s not that beautiful of a picture, but I did that, and people were like, wow that’s a really great tip. I’m like, oh, I should probably share these little things I do with people.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah! And you should tag Good Food for Bad Cooks.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Ok.

Liz Wolfe: So we can regram it.

Diane Sanfilippo: #GoodFoodforBadCooks.

Liz Wolfe: GFFBC.

Diane Sanfilippo: Along with that whole marinating thing, if you’re ever making a kale salad, make sure you massage the heck out of your kale.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: And you let that marinate for a while before you eat it, because otherwise you’re going to be sitting there chewing very uncomfortably.

Liz Wolfe: I’m picturing what a kale massage would look like.

Diane Sanfilippo: {sighs}

Liz Wolfe: Can you paint a more complete picture for me what it looks like to massage kale?

Diane Sanfilippo: Could you describe the ruckus, sir?

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} You bruise it, basically, so it starts out as a raw lighter green shade, and as you massage it and sort of squeeze it into your hands, you actually are starting to break down some of the, what’s it called. Ahh! Tip of my tongue. Just some of the fibers in the plant. Oh, the cellulose! So, you know how like with celery, you start chewing it, you break down the cell walls of the plant? That’s what you’re doing when you’re massaging the kale, and it becomes a darker color. It almost looks like you’ve started to cook it. Which, you sort of have. Not really with heat, but by the process of your hand, you’re breaking that kale down. And it really just makes it more palatable, easier to eat, and definitely if your feeding anyone else this kale salad, I recommend that too. I also recommend cutting it up really small, like a thinly chopped salad and then massaging it. So, lots of tips. I’ve got lots of tips.

Liz Wolfe: Many tips.

Diane Sanfilippo: Many tips.

Liz Wolfe: English tips.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Alright, that’s that. We’ll be back next week with more questions. No, we’ll be back next week with George and Julie of The Paleo Kitchen. I will be back next week. {laughs} If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please remember to subscribe and help us spread the word by leaving a review in iTunes. As always, you can find Diane at, one L, two P’s, and you can find me at Be sure to join our email lists, where we provide exclusive content to our subscribers that we don’t put anywhere else. Thanks for listening.

Cheers! Diane & Liz  

  • Lisa

    For Abby (question #6): Your son may be very sensitive to foods high in histamine, such as tomatoes, strawberries, over ripened fruit, fermented or cultured foods, shellfish, and canned tuna. You should be able to find a list of foods that are naturally high in histamine fairly easily online. Don’t read too much into it since it can get very confusing and limited. I recommend cutting them out or drastically reducing them. I no longer have ‘seemingly random’ itchy skin, and have drastically reduced allergies since limiting my intake of the high-histamine foods mentioned above.

  • Chi-Chi

    Way back in my vegan days, I was encouraged to cook acidic foods like tomatoes in my cast iron pans and skillets because the acidity would leach the iron into the food which was good especially if one suffered with anemia. Could you elaborate on why you’d avoid cooking acidic foods in cast iron? Is it because it removes the seasoning or is there a health reason why? Thanks!

    • Diane Sanfilippo

      I think it’s more about what the acid does to the pan, and, perhaps a bit about how much more iron may get into the food. If you’re eating iron-rich foods, you shouldn’t be using the pan to get iron. It also won’t be the same type of iron (plants vs animals) that you truly need for optimal health.