Podcast Episode #149: Paleo Baking, Sourdough Bread, Eating Clean but still have a Distended Belly, & Temporary Vegetarianism

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1.  Diane’s updates [3:43] 2.  Liz’s updates [9:39] 3.  Quality of food [14:45] 4.  Moderation of paleo treats [26:51] 5.  Eating sourdough bread  [33:07] 6.  Continued belly bloat after changing diet [43:30] 7.  A 3-day vegetarian  situation [50:49]


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Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone! Welcome to episode 149 of the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Liz, and that’s Diane, and we have sponsors! First up, Pete’s Paleo, bringing fine dining to your cave. If you’d like to make eating paleo a little easier on yourself, check out Pete’s meal plans. Great for those nights when you need real food fast. Pete’s Paleo is now offering 21-Day Sugar Detox friendly meals to make your life that much easier on the 21DSD. Check out for all the details. And be sure to check out chef Pete’s new cookbook, Paleo By Season, which has just released. Chameleon Cold-Brew. Their new ready to drink single serving bottles are hitting store shelves all over the place. They have a black coffee, as well as a vanilla and mocha, which are both technically black coffee but just ever so slightly sweetened with organic cane sugar. They’ll have three new flavors coming out in August, so stay tuned for details on that. And you all know we’re super excited about our newest sponsor, Splits59. They are a high performance and high fashion active wear company based out of LA. They are launching a new pinnacle line. Now, I’m going to say this wrong. Am I supposed to say this in the French way?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I am pretty sure I botched it when I read it.

Liz Wolfe: Noir de’Sport.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know. I was like, shoot. When I’m left to my own devices to talk about sponsors. Disaster ensues.

Liz Wolfe: I want to say Noir de’Sport.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t speak French, so I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t either. Which is super innovative with a hyper modern aesthetic, featuring things like welded seams, contrast geometrics, textural blocking, and other intricate details. The main collection is comprised of two concepts; mod city, which launches August 1st, and space race, which launches September 1st. Just, straight up on going on, just hearing mod city versus space race, which do you think you would go for?

Diane Sanfilippo: Ooh. I don’t know. I’m going to guess that I’m a mod city, but I’ve previewed them both, and I think there were things that I liked in both of them, so I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: I think I like space race.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. We’re going to have to gear ourselves up.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: And then have a reality selfie picture faceoff or something.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, that’s a good idea.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: We’ll do it. So, Splits59 has generously offered our listeners 15% off any regularly priced merchandise with the promo code BALANCEDBITES, one word, not case sensitive. And make sure you check out, because I believe as of, what, when is this airing? August ….

Diane Sanfilippo: Soon.

Liz Wolfe: Soon.

Diane Sanfilippo: No, this episode is going to air July 24th.

Liz Wolfe: End of July. Yeah. End of July, 2014. The big sale.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think it’s still going on.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Cool. Whoo! What are your updates, Diane?

1. Diane’s updates [3:43]

Diane Sanfilippo: Happy summer.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I haven’t yet been to the Jersey shore.

Liz Wolfe: What?!

Diane Sanfilippo: I have not been there yet. I know.

Liz Wolfe: My first experience of the Jersey Shore was going and meeting Bill and Hayley for the first time, like 4 years ago, at Stone Harbor, and we sat outside all day long, and I got super-duper burned.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: But it was a good day.

Diane Sanfilippo: Sounds about right. People think that the sun is not quite that strong there, but it is.

Liz Wolfe: It is.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not the tropics, but, you know. Seaside Heights. Stone Harbor.

Liz Wolfe: It’s down shore.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s down the shore! It is unlike many other things. Scott doesn’t really understand. He’s like, why do people in New Jersey have to call it down the shore? It’s, you go to the beach. I’m like, no because you have to go down there first.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Because most of the people are up north, and we go down, and then you drive down the shore line. It’s just what we do. It’s like the whole coast of the southern portion of New Jersey is all shore. I don’t know. It’s just what we call it. My parents are down the shore right now in Wildwood Crest, which is where we used to go every summer, and I have fond childhood memories. There was this mid-day fruit truck that would come to each couple of blocks, there would be this little street that the trucks could come down, and actually get closer to the people on the beach, so you know, you’d hear the little song. It’s like an ice cream truck, but it would be a fruit truck. But, like what awesome memories! I’m wishing that somebody would drive around with a fruit truck around my neighborhood right now. And then I think the ice cream truck would come later in the day. I think they would try and moderate it, and just, alright, you can only come once with the ice cream if you come with the fruit another time.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} The ice cream union and the fruit union had an agreement.

Diane Sanfilippo: For sure. And I’m pretty sure one of them, a clown was selling it.

Liz Wolfe: Ugh!

Diane Sanfilippo: I think it was the fruit. I’m pretty sure it was like, look.

Liz Wolfe: Way to turn me off of fruit for the rest of my life!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} But I think they were like, look, if we have a clown sell it… I’m going to dig up pictures of this, because I’m pretty sure the only reason I even remember it is that there are photographs of it somewhere. So, I’m going to go back to my parents house, which is, you know, a whopping 4 minutes from where I live, and {laughs} see if I can find a photo of this. And if I find it, I’ll post it on Instagram or somewhere, and just scare all of you. Anyway, so there down there. It’s nostalgic. My mom was sending me pictures from the beach, and the motel we used to stay at. It’s like, you know, this little rinky dink place, but it just brings back some really good memories. So there you go.

Liz Wolfe: I’m happy for you.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} But I have not been to the beach myself yet. Or, down the shore. See? I said to the beach.

Liz Wolfe: Every time I see pictures of down the shore, it’s so heavily saturated with people. I really just don’t like people that much.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well that’s why you either have to go at the beginning or the end of the summer before most people can go.

Liz Wolfe: Uh-huh.

Diane Sanfilippo: Or, I’m planning on trying to hit the shore on a weekday morning sometime. Because really, the weekends are the worst.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: We’ll see. But it is summer, so everyone is kind of, you know, out of school and whatnot, so it’s probably a little bit busier. Today, this episode airs July 24th, so I’d be crazy to not be super excited about the fact, I mean, I wish it were actually a live recording because then I could probably feel the excitement a little bit more! Right now I’m mostly just stressing out and hoping that all these web pages aren’t breaking. But, the new 21-Day Sugar Detox is launching officially today, and I’m kind of freaking out, because it’s been, as I’ve said on a couple of episodes now, it’s been almost a year since the program was offline, and now it’s coming back online, and I’m just super excited about it. Because, I don’t know, I kind of miss having the online program. So, I’m really excited about that.

Anybody who’s been interested in the program and wanting to check it out. If you don’t have the books yet, too, you’ll be able to get them through this whole one portal, come to my website, just come to the, and you can get an online package with the books as well. And yeah. So I have everything kind of in one place. What else can I tell people about that? The online package sells for $67. If you want the book with it, it’s $87, so you actually kind of get a super deal on the book when you do that. And then if you want both books, it’s $97. It’s kind of like a no-brainer. I just have this thing where I really wanted to keep everything as affordable as possible, and I would rather have more people be able do the program and get in on everything and get the information than not, so that was really the absolute best I could do with the pricing. I’m really excited about it.

I’m trying to think; there was something else that was kind of on the top of my mind. I don’t know. We’re probably going to do some sort of support calls. I don’t know exactly how it’s going to work. So, it’s the end of July right now. If you’ve been thinking about getting in on the Sugar Detox, check it out, and you’ve got a full week until the next one kicks off. The next one kicks off August 4th, and we do it the first Monday of every month, so if you’re like, I’m not ready yet, it’s still the summer, no problem. September, October, we’re going to do new groups each time. But you can definitely just get the materials and get prepared and get started whenever you want. I think that’s pretty much it. I don’t know, there was something else that was on the tip of my tongue that I was all amped to talk about with that, and I just keep forgetting. So I don’t know. That’s it. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Cool beans!

Diane Sanfilippo: Cool beans.

2. Liz’s updates [9:39]

Liz Wolfe: So, do you want my updates now?

Diane Sanfilippo: Nope. I don’t.

Liz Wolfe: You don’t care.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’m kidding. Yes! Of course I do!

Liz Wolfe: I’m finally starting the Eat the Yolks audio book!

Diane Sanfilippo: Whoop, whoop!

Liz Wolfe: Tomorrow! Well, it will be in the past. I’m speaking.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. So it should be done and into, I guess, audio edits and whatnot by October.

Diane Sanfilippo: Wow.

Liz Wolfe: Well actually, we’re hoping before that.

Diane Sanfilippo: This is a serious process, huh?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I have no idea how it works. How does it work? What do you do?

Liz Wolfe: Well, we found, we’re using the services of the university of central Missouri and their sound system situation.

Diane Sanfilippo: So you can’t just record into your iPhone or your computer?

Liz Wolfe: I mean, no.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I mean, so I would have had to get a bunch of stuff and read a whole bunch of instructions, and I didn’t want to do that so {laughs} we called upon the talents of the audio/visual club at UCM. Or something like that. Anyway, they’re going to do it, so I’m going into the studio, I’m recording for like 4 hours at a time, and hopefully getting all of that done within a couple of weeks, depending on how my voice holds up and how well I remember how to read. So, I should be done without too much drama in the next couple of months.

Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. I think that’s going to be great. I have a big affinity towards audio books, and especially, pretty much exclusively those read by the author. I really don’t like listening to audio books that are not read by the author. I think there’s just a lack of intonation and emotion and, you know, it’s just missing something. Whereas, when the author reads it, it’s like extra. I don’t know, I just really like it. So I’m pumped.

Liz Wolfe: Well, I’m doing it for you.

Diane Sanfilippo: Obviously. I’m basically going to listen to it every time I’m in my car now.

Liz Wolfe: Obviously.

Diane Sanfilippo: Obviously.

Liz Wolfe: It’s going to be a little weird, because you know I’m going to start out the beginning trying to be really… I’m sure by the end, I’m going to be like way loose and just {snaps} be-bopping, you know?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: As I finish up the book and we’ll see if I can keep a uniform voice throughout. If not, deal with it!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’m wondering if you’ll do like the Gary Vaynerchuk, I’m going to go off script here for a minute. He literally, I feel like every two to three pages of whatever he might be reading from his book. What was the last one I was listening to? Thank you, Economy, maybe. Literally, I’m listening to this thing, thinking if I had read the book, this would have not gotten me as pumped up! I mean, you know me, I like to listen to things anyway.

Liz Wolfe: Do you? Do you like to listen to things and people?

Diane Sanfilippo: Things and people!

Liz Wolfe: Are you a listener? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know if I’m a good listener {laughs}. I like to listen. But I’m curious. I don’t think you’ll go off the script. I think you’re a very…

Liz Wolfe: I won’t.

Diane Sanfilippo: Script person.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. I might add a word or two here.

Diane Sanfilippo: Be nervous too, I bet.

Liz Wolfe: But, I probably won’t go off the script. So that’s pretty much what’s going on in my life. Other than, you know, farm things and such.

Diane Sanfilippo: And you’ve got new videos, I’ve seen a couple of new videos from Real Food Liz.

Liz Wolfe: Oh yeah! I’m trying to do those, if not every week, at least 3 times a month.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: Because it seems to be, people seem to like that. Like you said, people seem to like listening and watching versus reading. I’ve always been the reading type, I like words.

Diane Sanfilippo: I like words, I just don’t like to read words!

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Not all on a page that don’t look different from one another. It’s too much uniformity for me. I fall asleep really quickly.

Liz Wolfe: That’s why my book will, one day, sink into total obscurity, because all it is is words!

Diane Sanfilippo: Ah! There’s a lot of books out there that are just words, so I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: There are a couple pictures though.

Diane Sanfilippo: There are?

Liz Wolfe: At the beginning of every chapter.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Clearly you’ve read my book! No, you’re waiting for the audio book, right?

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m waiting for the audio book.

Liz Wolfe: Fair enough.

Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome! Well, the last one was why you should eat sardines, with a demo! I mean, come on. People have to …

Liz Wolfe: A demo where I take a scoop of sardines and eat it. It’s not complicated. #itsnotcomplicated.

Diane Sanfilippo: #putonyourbiggirlpanties.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Do you rearrange the books in your bookcase every show? I’m looking at the…

Liz Wolfe: Sometimes. There’s one little featured spot.

Diane Sanfilippo: I see that!

Liz Wolfe: That changes.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m just waiting! I’m waiting to win the coveted spot there.

Liz Wolfe: I know. The problem is I’ve loaned out your books to all of my friends.

Diane Sanfilippo: Stop that.

Liz Wolfe: All of my paleo-curious friends.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh boy.

Liz Wolfe: I know. They’re my favorite books to loan out.

Diane Sanfilippo: Anyway. So go watch Liz’s videos. Alright, it’s been 13 minutes and 29..30..31 seconds.

Liz Wolfe: I’d like to do an entire podcast of only opening banter.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know! I think we should {laughs}.

Liz Wolfe: I would strongly prefer it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Maybe not this time.

Liz Wolfe: Maybe not.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. We have some good questions this week.

Liz Wolfe: Awesome.

Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. Alright, let’s get started.

3. Quality of food [14:45]

Liz Wolfe: Getting down to the nitty gritty on food quality. Courtney says, “hey girls! I’m so excited to submit a question to the podcast. Happy dance!” Aww. That’s cute. It’s the little things. {laughs} “I absolutely love the podcast and I am very thankful for the hard work y’all” insert southern drawl “put into your work. #eatthedamnsardines #whatwouldlizanddianedo. Long, I know, but these thoughts should be hashtags. I appreciate it so much, and always look forward to gifting your books and sharing what I’ve learned from you two. Also seeing what cool things y’all post on Insta, and me making my pup Leo pose with your books you send me. Thank you, and Leo says hi!” I think I know who this is.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think all the kids are calling it “Insta” these days.

Liz Wolfe: Are they really? They can’t be bothered to say Instagram?

Diane Sanfilippo: No, I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Every time I say Instagram, I think of the Jerk.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Nope.

Liz Wolfe: The optigrab, and he goes optigrabbing it. I always think, Insta-gramming it.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: I got at least 2 people laughing at that just now.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m laughing that I need to watch The Jerk. That’s what I’m laughing at.

Liz Wolfe: Yes. Yes you do. He hates these cants! Ok. “Question about raw milk. Last summer, my husband and I joined a herd share to legally get a gallon of raw milk a week from a local farmer. I only drink maybe one to two cups of it weekly, but my husband drinks it daily. The more I learn about raw milk, the more questions I seem to have about 100% grass-fed/feed supplements/pasteurization. Now that we’ve been in the share for a year, I feel like asking the farmer a lot of questions might come across as questioning the farmers hard work, you know? The cows aren’t completely grass fed, but he says they are hay and forage free choice all day, but get a daily concentrated feed. Not 100% grain, it’s Purina dairy special, 16% course.

My question is, am I still getting the good benefits from this raw milk with the cows not being 100% grass-fed? Also question about chicken. Am I still getting the benefits of farm fresh eggs and chicken if they’re getting a small portion of a GMO feed? I asked the farmer why he does a GMO feed, and he said he would have to drive too far to get non-GMO, and honestly he said it’s such a small portion of their diet, he doesn’t think the carbon footprint is worth it. Thoughts? Am I still picking a good choice, even with the small amount of GMO feed? My dream of a small farm I know would help with this, but for now I support the local farmers. I guess since my dad was a farmer, I know how much hard work goes into what they do. I have so much respect for farmers and homesteaders, that I just get nervous asking a lot of questions. PS”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: “I vote for a call-in segment on the show, although I’m pretty sure I’d forget my question and get caught up in just chatting because y’all are so sweet and funny.” Awww.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s nice.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know if we’re both sweet and funny.

Diane Sanfilippo: Nope.

Liz Wolfe: No.

Diane Sanfilippo: We answered a kind of similar question, I think it was last week, about the feed, but that was more about somebody maybe reacting to or just experiencing negative effects of what the animals are eating, and I think her question here is a little bit more about the nutrition profile and benefits of the meat and milk and all of that based on what the animals are eating. So do you want to weigh in on that?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, so I kind of want to start out by addressing this thing about non-GMO carbon footprint and what not. I think that’s, all love and respect to the farmer, but it sounds like he’s not very confident in what he’s saying, because who could say that driving a little further for non-GMO grains would have a greater carbon footprint than GMO grains? I mean, the carbon footprint from start to finish of growing, processing, shipping, creating laboratory derived GMO grains is probably far greater than him driving a little further. So it just sounds like he doesn’t want to make the drive, but the carbon footprint argument is ridiculous. With respect to all the hard work this farmer does. That’s a really dumb argument.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think that’s like the weakest argument there could be, actually.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. That’s ridiculous. But, you know, I don’t know. I know there are people; I am, if you’ve read my book, you know that I just look at GMOs as the height of processed food. It’s genetically processed foods, and I have no interest in it. I think the industry as a whole is really damaging to the earth, and I also think, you know I had this talk. I sat down to lunch with some people the other day, and one of them was another writer. And she says, she’ll tell you this, she writes smutty fiction {laughs} which is kind of funny. But she’s also a meeting planner, and she plans meetings for these huge agricultural industry meetings, and she was talking, having not read my book, of course, she was saying…

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I did one for Monsanto, and oh man this guy was just so smart, and they’ve done so much for the world, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I just wanted to say, they are feeding third world countries with the land they usurped from these people to grow their grains and now they have to feed them because they’ve caused mass desertification and blah, blah, blah. So I didn’t want to go into it with her. I forgot why I was even talking about it in the first place. But the point is, I am not familiar enough with the research around GMO. I think that GMO are suspect. I think it’s probably very possible that people react to them. I think it’s also very possible that people react to a lot of things. For example, a lot of people maybe believe they are gluten sensitive, right? But they are actually sensitive to FODMAPS. Or the other ingredients in crappy food that contains gluten. So, a lot of times it’s really hard to tease apart what people are actually reacting to, and what actually might make a difference from one person to another. But my opinion is, you stay away from GMO when you can.

But I don’t know about these eggs. I think probably the nutrients that we would get from, say, an egg yolk are probably worth getting even if there is a small portion of GMO feed in there.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: And maybe even during the spring and summer where there’s a ton of food for these chickens to free range and get out on pasture, maybe focus on eggs during that time of year versus the winter, when in most places there’s a lot less forage available and the chickens are probably eating a lot more grain.

Diane Sanfilippo: Right. It is definitely a little bit of a seasonal food, too. I remember in San Francisco, it was like, no eggs! There are no eggs.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: And I think we’re just not totally used to that. And I think; were you going to jump on the raw milk one, or do you want me to tackle that part.

Liz Wolfe: No, go for it.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, I think with the milk situation, she hasn’t said… she said she’s asking questions, and what she found out is that they are not completely grass-fed. I think, you know there’s probably three components to good, raw… Maybe four. Alright, four components {laughs} to good raw milk.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: One being how the cows are raised, two being what they are eating, so whether that’s 100% grass or grass and grain, three being whether or not it’s organic, and four being whether or not it’s pasteurized. And I think, I don’t even remember what order I put these in. I’m going to look at what I put in Practical Paleo, because I’m sure, I just don’t want to contradict myself.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: But I’m pretty sure that I would {laughs}.

Liz Wolfe: Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I just, I don’t know. I think when we’re choosing food quality, I put the order of what I would prioritize, but I think sometimes we have to make that call based on our situation. So, I’m just trying to see if I actually figured all of these into the situation, and I did. Ok, so. This is the way I ordered it in my guide to food quality, and so this is what I would recommend. Ideally, it’s 100% grass fed, and it’s raw and unpasteurized. With that, you generally get, either it is organic certified, or it’s organic, maybe not certified. That’s one of the things that also sometimes comes up. It doesn’t sound like that’s the case with this situation, because it seems like this farmer is a little bit lenient. I don’t know if it’s the same farmer. A little bit lenient on the GMOs, so if it’s the same farmer, it sounds like it may or may not be organic. I just know that there are tons of farmers out there who do things organically, but getting the certification is either too hard or too expensive.

So anyway. You’re next best bet down from there, in my opinion, is just that it’s raw milk. Because the cow has to be healthy for the farmer to sell you the raw milk. They cannot sell you; the restrictions on raw milk are so high that they can’t sell you raw milk from an unhealthy cow. So even if they’re getting the small percentage of additional feed, and Liz you talked about this on the last episode, that you even supplement your chickens.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: There’s just a time and a place for it. I don’t think you should be afraid to ask the questions, I think it’s ok to have that level of respect, too, where you, instead of assuming you know what’s best for everyone, give them the benefit of the doubt, and then also know your case, too, like the case against the GMOs for the chickens, so a little bit of a weak case.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Know your case, and also I guess sort of know your place. If you’re not doing what they’re doing, lay off a little bit, I think. It’s that give and take, the same way, you know, if you’re not going to make the food yourself, you have to either pay a little more, you sacrifice a little bit on what you would do. Anyway, I do think that the next best bet is that it may not be 100% grass fed, but it is raw. Because there are enzymes in the raw milk that you’re just not getting if it’s pasteurized. What also happens when it’s pasteurized is that you’re killing some of those vitamins that are sensitive to heat. So the vitamins A and D, which are pretty much the big reason why you’re drinking this raw milk in the first place. Some of that level will be reduced by, perhaps not being from cows that are fed just rapidly growing green pasture, but again it’s this whole hierarchy.

Good milk to buy would be grass-fed, so for folks who can’t have access to raw milk, but you really feel like you do well with milk, but you just have to buy it in the grocery store, there are a lot of stores now selling milk from grass-fed cows. Maybe it’s 100%, maybe not. Usually, if it doesn’t say 100% and its commercial in a grocery store, I’m just not sure how compelling it is, because I’m pretty sure all cows get grass to some degree. They can call it grass, and it’s dried and it’s hay, and that’s not quite the same nutrient profile as fresh green pasture would be.

With that baseline, what I don’t recommend is just commercial or plain organic milk that’s not necessarily coming from cows on pasture. I don’t really think that’s a super healthy food. I don’t necessarily think it’s flat line unhealthy, I just don’t think it’s really promoting this higher level of healthy than just avoiding it altogether. Anyway, I would probably say it’s ok to still drink that raw milk. And also, how do you feel when you’re on it? Do you fell like your immunity is a little bit better? How’s your digestion? There’s just a lot of constituents in this raw, live food that we may not really know what they’re doing. I don’t know how well studied it is, because I think people just became really afraid of it, and because it’s this sort of taboo food. There’s no Monsanto researching the benefits of raw milk.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: So, you’re not going to find the latest cover of Time magazine. Who knows? Maybe in another 20 years, we’ll see that again. Raw milk is healthier. Maybe. You know? This whole butter thing was, I’m sure 20 years ago people thought that would have been crazy. So, I think it’s ok. There you go.

Liz Wolfe: Cool. There you go. So, not sure, how do you feel, whatever you think.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

4. Moderation of paleo treats [26:51]

Liz Wolfe: That’s about what we’ve got. Alright. What’s the real scoop on paleo baking. Veronica says, “With paleo, I know you eat what you need when you need it, and as long as you don’t overeat, you shouldn’t gain weight. My question is, with regards to all of the almond and coconut flour-based recipes, like pancakes, breads, muffins, etc, how much and how often can you eat things like this if you don’t want to gain weight? Additional info, I’m a daily runner, foodie, and I also do Lagree Pilates.”

Diane Sanfilippo: I have no idea what that is.

Liz Wolfe: Yogilates. I don’t either.

Diane Sanfilippo: I have no idea.

Liz Wolfe: “I’m just about to start paleo, but have been a very healthy eater, organic whole foods, for a long time. I don’t have any medical issues, and feel great every day. I take a daily multivitamin, probiotic, and a general allergy medication called Singulair. I’m female, 48 years old, 5’3”, and weigh 114. I recently lost 10 pounds, and want to be able to maintain my weight, enjoy food, and life. Paleo seems like the way to go for me for a permanent way of eating.” Julia! Not Julia. Julie and myself in our recent podcast about Julie’s book, the Paleo Kitchen, we talked a little bit about paleo treats, and I think that’s kind of what this question is, right? A paleo treats question?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think it’s kind of a, what’s our take on how to moderate that, if you want to use that word.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: But yeah.

Liz Wolfe: I probably do paleo friendly pancakes, it’s a recipe from Brittany Angell that uses a little bit of coconut flour and some potato starch or tapioca starch. We probably do those once a week. Maybe once a week I’ll do Julie’s recipe for sausage biscuits and gravy or something like that. But really, I think 90% of what I eat is whole, you know, meat, vegetables, fruit. That type of thing. So it’s just one of those things. Some people can eat those all day long and be happy with how they feel and how they look, and other people maybe look in the mirror and see something amiss right away. I don’t know. And part of that might be psychological. I just think it’s individual.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think it’s just a very quick delivery system of a lot of calories, and perhaps not super nutrient density depending on what it is, so I’ve definitely been a proponent of, look, if you’re going to have a treat, definitely make it from real, whole, quality ingredients, make it in your own home, or get the Cappello’s grain free cookies, the slice and bake cookies, that kind of thing.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: But, I don’t really eat them that often myself, either. I’m allergic to most nuts at this point. I’ve had nut allergies for a while, but more of them kind of just exposed themselves so I can’t. It’s an oral allergy. I know people are like, oh, do you want to heal your allergy? No, I really don’t care that much about it.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not like a digestive thing where if I heal my gut it will work. It’s an oral allergy. It’s kind of like the next most severe to an anaphylaxis, so not interested in healing that {laughs}. But, you know, if you see bloggers posting it, people sharing it, and it seems like this is all that paleo people do, it’s just because everybody freaking loves cookies. And so, if somebody shares a cookie recipe on Facebook or Instagram or whatever, it’s going to get a lot of traffic. And so it makes people think that people are eating these a lot. Granted, I think when people first go paleo, they’re so excited to replace their old favorites that they make them a lot. We’ve probably talked about this countless times, but how much and how often if you don’t want to gain weight? Not that much and not that often. Right? I mean, how often would you have baked anything else in your former way of eating?

I think, you know, I think it’s fun and it’s fair to say you want to test something. I was like, oh, I wonder if I could make a bagel. Which, you know, seriously, I don’t know why I thought I might be able to accomplish anything even close. Because it kind of looked like a bagel, it tasted almost nothing like a bagel when I tried it.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, the flavor was good. The texture was totally wrong. But I think it’s kind of fun to try and do that so that when you have this event, where you’re like, ok, I want to serve something that everyone is going to be enjoying and excited about, and I almost trick them into the fact that it’s grain free, and they didn’t think they could love it so much. I think it’s fun. I think it’s fun to have a brownie recipe or a cookie recipe or whatever. But there’s no reason why those things should be made or consumed any more often than you would have before just because they’re paleo-friendly. I think that’s kind of; I mean, look. If you get down to the banana and egg pancake situation, or plantain egg pancake, and you just like making it into a pancake shape.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s different than a lot of the flours, perhaps. But, are you covering it with 4 pounds of maple syrup? Then, in that case, {laughs} maybe not the best idea. But, yeah that’s kind of what I think. I don’t really eat them that often. But I also have very little willpower around that kind of stuff. So if you want to make something that’s baked that you’re maybe not going to go overboard on, some of the not sweet treats in the 21-Day Sugar Detox books are, they just don’t have that same pull as, you know, cookies that you might make that are sweet and buttery and have all these things combined. There’s no sweetness in these things, so it really doesn’t give you that same sensory overload that it would if it were sweet. So there. That’s it. Nothing else. Man, I wish I had brought some water down here to my office. Harper, go get me some water, ok?

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Nope.

Liz Wolfe: Nope.

Diane Sanfilippo: She is so funny. She is lying on this blanket that is her little beddie, and then there’s another bed next to it, and that’s her pillow! I have to take a picture. I’ll Instagram this with everyone listening.

Liz Wolfe: You gonna Insta it really quick?

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m going to Insta this.

5. Eating sourdough bread [33:07]

Liz Wolfe: Ugh. Ok, well you Insta while I read the next question. Your thoughts on sourdough bread. Brittany says, “hi Diane and Liz! I’m a newish listener, and have become hooked on your podcast. Thanks for making nutrition fun and sharing your passion with the world. So, my question is, what are your thoughts on sourdough bread. Since it’s fermented, I know many people are able to easily digest it. I would love your opinion. Thanks so much.”

So, here’s when I get excommunicated from the church of paleo, and, you know, people come after me with flaming torches or whatever. I think a lot more people can tolerate old-school, extremely old, ancient strains of grain, like for example spelt or traditionally made sourdough bread. Most sourdough bread is not actually sourdough bread. It’s just bread with a sourdough flavorish. But if you get legit sourdough bread, you actually can supposedly break down the gluten enough through the fermentation process that it’s not going to be a problem.

Something that I’ve just kind of grown to believe is that a lot of people who believe that they have, for example, gluten intolerance who kind of self-diagnosed gluten intolerance, as many of us do. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying that, because I think saying, you know, I’m intolerant to bread, I can’t eat grains because I’m gluten intolerant, that makes sense to everybody. Everybody knows what gluten is at this point. But I think a lot of people that self-diagnose may actually be dealing with a FODMAP intolerance. So I think there’s kind of more at work than just gluten is the devil. I, personally, for a very long time, kind of self-diagnosed with gluten intolerance, and then kind of started to realize that I actually do just fine with spelt, spelt bread for example that’s made with a sourdough culture, where it’s literally just spelt, sourdough and salt.

So, there’s a bakery in New Hampshire. I think it’s called, well I don’t know if it’s New Hampshire. But it’s Brookshire Mountain Bakery, and they have a website. A while back, I ordered. My husband wanted some bread, and so I ordered some spelt bread from them. We actually do fine with it. I kind of treat it like I treat almond flour baked goods or coconut flour baked goods, where I just don’t do them all that much because it is, I mean, it is a processed food. You grind something into flour, you’re taking it out of its original shape and eating something that we’re probably not meant to actually eat. Of course, unless it’s fermented and traditionally made, it makes it a little bit more tolerable.

Anyway, point is, I do fine with that. I think a lot of people probably would. And when people are getting on a whole food plan, and they want to have a piece of sourdough bread or spelt sometimes and they don’t care about whether or not their paleo or what kind of nutrition camp or what kind of nutrition dogma they’re adopting forever and ever, amen, I’m pretty much ok with it. So that’s how I feel about it.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s how I feel about that.

Liz Wolfe: yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I just want to remind people, too, like what you were mentioning about gluten intolerance maybe being a FODMAP intolerance. Taking that one step further, if you don’t tolerate a lot of FODMAPS, which if you’re new to this show, FODMAPS are specific types of carbohydrates in a lot of different vegetables. They are also in grains. FODMAPS is just an acronym. But it usually means there’s some reason why you’re not digesting them, and for a lot of people, it’s an imbalance of gut bacteria. If you’re on my emailing list, you’re getting access to a 50+ page free guide on SIBO, which is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, which is a very, very, very common cause or underlying reason why people seem to have these huge overarching FODMAPS intolerances.

So, it’s kind of like over these years, we keep getting deeper and deeper on why people are having all these issues. It’s like, years ago it was, oh, I’m just intolerant to a lot of foods. Then it became, well, really if you just pull out these specific foods, these intolerances to the other foods may go away. Which, I think for people who are dealing with maybe a lot of yeast overgrowth, or Candida overgrowth, or fungal, or whatever was going on, when we did pull out the sugars and the grains, we actually did get our gut bacteria balance in better shape, because we got rid of all these extra sugars and carbs without nutrients and all that stuff that really did help to reset the balance.

But then when we look at it further, and people are like, well I’m eating clean paleo, why do I still not digest coconut, or avocado, or cauliflower, for that matter, onions and garlic. These are paleo foods, why can’t I digest them. Some people just have a different situation. Whether it’s you traveled and you got some kind of infectious disease or something happened, and it kind of set that off. I think everybody just has a different situation, and I’m with you. I don’t think it’s the end of the world. And I really do think, you know, it’s been how long now. What is this, almost episode 150, so that means we’ve been doing this almost 3 years now? {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: And I think, probably if you look at what we were even talking about 3 years ago, what you learn over time when you adopt this lifestyle and this way of eating is that there is really not much of a reason to look at somebody who may be eating what they consider a healthy diet, maybe it’s sprouted Ezekiel bread, or whatever it may be. You can’t assume that they are not healthy because they are eating that thing. You can’t assume that somebody eats sourdough bread now and then, well they can’t possibly be healthy because they’re not eating paleo. You have to remember that not everybody needs to take things to the same level or that that level is better. It’s just different, and perhaps your body needs that now, and you might find in a year or two that you tolerate some of these things just fine. Then you’re going to feel really silly that you were on this crazy soap box.

I do think the more you learn about this stuff, the more you know how little we know. And it’s just really important to kind of just not go crazy about it. Yeah, I don’t know. That’s about the size of it.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: I need a way to tell you I’m done talking so you just make me stop talking. Wait, can I just say, this is totally completely off topic. I don’t know if you’ve watched comedians and cars getting coffee.

Liz Wolfe: What are you talking?

Diane Sanfilippo: Have you seen this?

Liz Wolfe: What? Is this a show?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes.

Liz Wolfe: or is this a thing I should be watching for at Starbucks?

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s a show, and I just want to say this right now. This is my sense of humor. I’m not sure, hmm. There’s plenty of things that you and both agree are totally funny, and then some things I’m like, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m on another planet right now. Ok, so Jerry Seinfeld. {laughs} Little Jerry Seinfeld.

Liz Wolfe: {Laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Jerry Seinfeld has a web series. Actually, I think there’s a new episode coming out today. Well, this will have been last week, with Jon Stewart. He basically picks up a comedian, one of his buds or somebody he’s decided to invite on the show, picks them up in a different car. You know he’s a big car guy. Sometimes they’re his cars, sometimes they’re just cars he’s using, and they go get coffee. And apparently, I watched an interview with he and David Letterman who talked about the whole process, it’s like several hours of this exchange boiled down into about 15-20 minutes of a little web TV show. And it’s just Comedians in cars getting coffee {laughs} and it’s really funny.

I watched an episode recently, it was Jerry and Sarah Jessica Parker who, I mean, I don’t know. I love her. I just think she’s adorable, and so genuine, and such an old soul. That episode was so perfect and amazing. So anyone who, I don’t know, needs a good laugh or wants to understand my sense of humor {laughs} maybe watch that episode. So there was this really great line in the episode, I just have to tell you about this. Liz, I have to tell you.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok?

Liz Wolfe: Ok Diane.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, there’s two great things going on. They’re at this diner getting coffee, and they’re like, how much tip do we leave? And Sarah Jessica is like, I don’t know, you move the decimal right? You know, how a normal person would calculate a tip and then you multiply and you’re giving 20%? And he’s like, yeah, but this waitress is going to say, I just waited on Jerry Seinfeld and Sarah Jessica Parker, and people are going to ask her about the tip. And she’s like, so what do we do, leave an extra 20 bucks? And she’s like, what’s normal? And Jerry’s like, well what’s normal? Basically, their celebrities, nothing is going to be normal. Anyway, I have a point.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Fast forward. You guys, you just have to watch this episode. Fast forward, and he’s like, what do you think people thing we’re doing here? You know, the two of them in this diner getting coffee. What do you think people think? And she’s like, I think they thing we’re making a new TV show. Us together. And he’s like, that’s totally unreasonable. That’s ridiculous. And she goes, this is the best line of the whole show, and this defines everything that happens on the internet with people asking certain questions or making certain comments. She goes, What makes you think reason ahs anything to do with what people think? Isn’t that crazy? Think about it! When people comment, and you’re like, that doesn’t make any sense! Alright. Forget it. I just went on a total tangent.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: There’s like 3 people who are relating with me right now listening, and the rest of them are like, Diane, shut up and just answer questions. Ugh! You have to watch it. Anyway.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Sounds major.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I wish they were sponsoring us, because I just went on for 5 minutes about this show.

Liz Wolfe: I’ll check it out.

Diane Sanfilippo: Comedians in cars getting coffee. There you go. That was worth a lot, Jerry Seinfeld, if you’re listening!

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m just kidding {laughs}. He’s obviously not listening.

Liz Wolfe: Now we’re starting rumors that Jerry Seinfeld is paleo.

Diane Sanfilippo: That would be amazing.

Liz Wolfe: Oh my god. Ok. Are you ready for the next question?

Diane Sanfilippo: You can edit that out if you want.

Liz Wolfe: No.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} No.

Liz Wolfe: Ain’t nobody got time for that.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ain’t nobody got time for that.

6. Continued belly bloat after changing diet [43:30]

Liz Wolfe: Alright. Eating clean and still have a distended belly. Scott says, is this your Scott?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Couldn’t he have just asked you this at home?

Diane Sanfilippo: No. He doesn’t have a distended belly.

Liz Wolfe: Ok. “Hi Diane and Liz. Love your podcast. Curious to get your opinion and advise on my situation. I’m 50, I have celiac disease, asymptomatic, diagnosed about 5 years ago. I have a distended belly. It goes away when I fast, and when I first get up in the morning. But as soon as I drink my morning water, I’ve got a big pouch all day. It sticks out a good 2 inches, compared to when I flex my abs.” Dude, when I’m flexing my abs versus when I just let it all go, it is way more than 2 inches! Just saying.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} “I’d love to lose that. Here’s some background, which I think is important. I’ve always been a very fit, high energy amateur athlete. Always had very low body fat, between 15 and 20%. I am 5’11”, and have always weighed around 150, though now I’m down to 140, my body fat is around 10-15%. I bike, rock climb, and lift weights. I’ve always eaten the Standard American Diet. After I was diagnosed with celiac, first with a blood test then confirmed with endoscopy, my villa had pretty much atrophied, I followed doctor’s orders and ate the gluten-free version of the Standard American Diet. I binged on sweets a lot, drank sodas a few times a week, ate fast food on occasion, had a lot of gluten free pizza, bread, etc. I never cheated, and ate gluten. About a year ago, I wised up and gave up refined white gluten-free flour, processed foods, white sugar, and dairy. I ate some meat and some healthy fats, but mostly veggies and fruit, and mostly raw. This cleared up a lifetime struggle with cystic acne, but wreaked havoc on my digestion. I had momentary spells of perfect digestion, one to two movements a day without straining, but almost always had bad gas and constarrhea.

A few weeks ago, I started eating far fewer fruits. I now eat mostly apples and berries, and usually only one serving per day. More meat, and more healthy fats; coconut oil, raw olive oil, ghee, avocado and eggs, getting around 70% of my calories from fat. I eat only grass-fed, pastured raised animal products, and get organic or certified naturally grown meat and produce 90% of the time.” {sigh} “since the shift of a few weeks ago…”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Sorry. I was a little breathless there. “ has gotten a little better. No more diarrhea, but now I’m more constipated than I’ve ever been, and still gassy, though not as bad as before. So you can see, I’m on a good road, getting healthier, and perhaps slowly healing the leaky gut that first resulted in my celiac diagnosis. I’d like your perspective on where I’m heading and what, if anything, you think I should consider doing differently. The distended belly is a strange symptom, and has been consistent through all my diet changes of the past year. My doc things it might be Candida or yeast overgrowth, but can’t be sure.

Additional info, typical days food mostly paleo. Breakfast is coconut flaxseed berry smoothie. Lunch 4 eggs with veggies, avocados, turmeric. Dinner beef or salmon, second dinner oysters, cacao smoothie, nuts, cacao, aloe, spinach, avocado, raw honey, dried fig. Supplements ubiquinol, trace minerals, MSM. Exercise lift weights or run maybe twice a week. Tai chi almost daily. Stress reduction meditate about once per day. I eat beans, probably every other day, as well as raw honey every day or two. Dried fruit, maybe one date or dried fig per day, and some pseudo grains, like quinoa, buckwheat, gluten free oats once or twice a week.” You’re the poop master, Diane.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I have two really kind of big initial thoughts on this. My very first though is bloated stomach is usually a big sign of low stomach acid. Which, I mean there’s a million reasons why we can have low stomach acid, so I would recommend that Scott check out the digestion section of Practical Paleo and kind of review the details on stomach acid in there. We’ve talked about it probably at least 6 or 7 times on the podcast before, so go back and kind of look through the archives on topic of stomach acid, how to figure out if maybe yours is too low, what you should do to work on it. There are some natural things you can do like apple cider vinegar, lemon juice, not drinking too much water with meals, making sure that you’re calm and in rest and digest mode before you eat and all of that. He’s basically saying, before I start eating, I’m fine. {laughs} As soon as I start eating, I’m bloated.

So the second thing, which kind of he was asking about at one point in here. Or, what he said the doctor thinks it could be Candida or yeast overgrowth. If there’s an issue with the bacterial balance in your gut, what might be happening to give you that distended belly kind of upstream would be an off gassing of the different types of bacteria based on what you’re feeding them. And so, if the types of carbohydrates that you’re eating are feeding them, and they’re not the types of bacteria that we want primarily in the gut or in that type of balance, then that could be causing that bloating, too. So, I would first try and address the stomach acid, because if the stomach acid is off and you fix that, you may be able to fix the bacterial balance. Because if you’re not killing off the right bacteria, and you’re not doing the right things in your stomach with your food, then everything else won’t really work right. So I think that’s kind of step one.

By eating fewer fruits, him getting a little bit of a better response, it just kind of points to, ok, yeah. Maybe you do have an issue with that balance. It could be a fungal thing, it could be a bacterial thing. It could be small intestinal bacterial overgrowth causing this kind of distress. It just may require a period of time when you’re either going very low carb, where you’re just kind of starving these bacteria all together, or going low FODMAP, which again in the SIBO guide, I have basically a huge list of foods and which are low FODMAP and how to reduce the FODMAP content. Different ways of cooking helps reduce that by sort of breaking them down a bit. But things like beans and honey. Well, the honey is actually probably ok. Things like beans and dried fruit and the pseudo grains probably aren’t the best if that is the case. So, every other day having beans; beans are pretty high FODMAP foods from what I recall, because we know gluten is very, very high FODMAP.

So that’s kind of what I would look at. Start with the stomach acid, and then I would try and figure out. If it seems like maybe not eating a lot of these carby rich foods, again, just pull up a chart and look. Even in Practical Paleo I kind of; I don’t know if it was an asterisk or some kind of way I demoted which paleo friendly foods are the highest in FODMAPs, or through the email list. Grab the SIBO guide and find it there, and just kind of see how you feel with that. And then the next steps would be to get a diagnosis for that and kind of go through that treatment. I think you can start with the stomach acid a little bit more easier, and just kind of on your own at home.

Liz Wolfe: When dealing with digestive insufficiencies, start from the top down.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: So even if it’s happening down, still start at the top.

Diane Sanfilippo: Word.

Liz Wolfe: Word. Should we do one more?

Diane Sanfilippo: One more.

7. A 3-day vegan situation [50:49]

Liz Wolfe: Ok. Help! I have to be a vegetarian for three days! {laughs} Regina says…

Diane Sanfilippo: Help!

Liz Wolfe: Help!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: “Hey lovely ladies. Firstly, thank you so much for all that you do, but mostly thank you for the snark and extremely entertaining side commentary.” I think we’re honing our audience.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Exactly how we want it. Because we used to get a little bit more complaints about the side commentary.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, they got a good dose of side commentary on today’s episode, so. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I think it’s all friends now. I think we have all friends here.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yay.

Liz Wolfe: “At the moment, I’m wrapping up my own eat, pray, love sort of year. Portland, Oregon, France, Turkey, and the Philippines. I’m a yogini, and when I get home to California, I would really like to spend 3 days in an Ashram doing a meditation workshop to end my year.

Diane Sanfilippo: Hold on. Is the yogini like a mini yogi? What’s a yogini?

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know. I was kind of afraid to ask and not know.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. Ok. I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know. {laughs} A very small.. yeah, maybe.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: “This would be August 1st through the 3rd, and I would really love to incorporation meditation into my daily life, anyway. The problem is, as you might imagine, this Ashram is vegetarian bordering on vegan. I’ve been there before, and they are absolutely not ok with me bringing my own animal-based foods. Though I can bring my own food as long as it’s vegetarian. It would be one thing if I had to be vegetarian for 3 days. But the problem is I have SIBO, of the methane variety, and PCOS, so I follow a very restrictive paleo diet. Do you have any suggestions of vegetarian, SIBO friendly and non-perishable foods I can manage to live off of for 3 days. I’m planning on bringing a quart of coconut oil. I have no problem eating it straight with a spoon, preferably with cinnamon. In France, I bought butter to eat like cheese, but I’ve since decided to go entirely dairy free for my PCOS and acne. I would stock up on sardines to eat straight from the can, which I love, but those are animals too! Would any sort of nuts be ok? To be honest, I’m rather afraid of nuts and most vegetables, given the poor state of my digestion. Any suggestions are very welcome.

One more brief question. By your suggestion in a previous podcast, I’ve completely taken dairy out of my diet. I was only eating butter before, and I don’t want anything to interfere with my hormonal health. I absolutely love the cinnamon tingle FCLO/butter oil blend, but for the time being would it be best to just use straight up FCLO without the butter oil? Thanks again for all you do from another Sicilian girl, as you may have guessed from my name, and I look forward to seeing you guys at AHS.” Are you going to AHS?

Diane Sanfilippo: I will not be at AHS.

Liz Wolfe: I will not be at AHS.

Diane Sanfilippo: I will be in Greece, so.

Liz Wolfe: I actually didn’t even know that AHS was happening. This just shows how off the grid I am these days.

Diane Sanfilippo: You’re so not paleo. I’m just kidding.

Liz Wolfe: I had no idea. I had no idea that AHS was happening. No clue. I just, I’ve got other stuff to worry about, man. I’ve got these ducks. {sigh}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’ll be on the beach.

Liz Wolfe: Ok. You know what I would like to have this person do, is actually take a copy of my book to the owners of the Ashram and let them know the actual roots of vegetarianism and yoga and Buddhism and all that. And perhaps, if she could just bring an animal that died naturally, of natural causes, then she can eat that. If they’re really following the roots of what they think they’re following, maybe if a cow would pass away of natural causes, then she could bring that. Because I think, really, you’re just not supposed to kill anything in that whole theology.

Diane Sanfilippo: I have no idea. Yeah, I have no idea. I thought vegetarian didn’t mean you couldn’t eat any animal foods. What’s the deal? Why am I not understanding what vegetarian means?

Liz Wolfe: I bet they do dairy. I think it would be, just like lacto-ovo vegetarian.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Or whatever.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, I don’t know. Is that what that means?

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know.

Diane Sanfilippo: In which case, eat a bunch of eggs.

Liz Wolfe: Maybe nothing with a face? I would think if she could have eggs, we would know about it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think this sounds like a vegan situation.

Liz Wolfe: I mean, on the bright side, it’s only 3 days.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s a vegan situation {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Veganism is a first world problem. Let me just say that.

Diane Sanfilippo: We’ve created a struggle that doesn’t need to exist.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. There is nowhere else in the world that you can choose your food the way we can here. I talk about that stuff in my book. But really, I mean, at least it’s only 3 days. I mean, if you feel very strongly that this is the place to go spiritually, and you want to go ahead and do this and live by their rules; good that it’s only 3 days. But I just don’t know that it can be done with perfection without consequences.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. This is one of those, if it were me situations, which we all know I’m not a yogi or a yogini.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} You are neither a yogi nor a yogini.

Diane Sanfilippo: I had posted a video on Instagram last night, so you can see my body is not built for yoga, I’ve decided. But anyway.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Where’s your center of gravity compared to a normal human?

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s just made to lift heavy things and then walk around. It’s not meant to run or be bendy or any of that stuff.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: So, look. Running would have been evolutionary appropriate perhaps long ago. I’m not sure about being so bendy. I don’t know. I don’t know what… I don’t know. Alright, all the yogis are going to hate on my now. But my mom does yoga, and I love it. It’s great.

Liz Wolfe: I love being bendy. I’m super bendy.

Diane Sanfilippo: I just don’t know why that’s useful.

Liz Wolfe: I love it.

Diane Sanfilippo: I just think. I don’t know. Anyway. I’m not hating on it. I’m just trying to understand when it will become useful. Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Whatever, I’m eating cheese fries. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Whatever. I really want to {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, here we go. It’s down the toilet now.

Liz Wolfe: She said she likes our side commentary.

Diane Sanfilippo: If any of our listeners have not watched Mean Girls, the Jerk, whatever movies they have to watch, because the entire podcast will just be funnier and make more sense if 5 movies are now in their repertoire. So, Elf, and Mean Girls are the only two movies I own on my computer. I can prove that with a screen shot right now if you wanted, besides random videos of people lifting weights.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} I also have Hamlet 2 and Bring it on Again, and Bring It On, In It To Win It. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: The step it upper? I’m just kidding. {laughing} Oh man, now I totally don’t even know what I was going to talk about. What were we saying?

Liz Wolfe: FODMAP free vegetarian foods.

Diane Sanfilippo: I would do, like we talked about this for somebody else. Like, I would probably bring sardines in a can and just go eat them outside.

Liz Wolfe: Sardines in the car! {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I would just eat them outside.

Liz Wolfe: You can’t do that though. Because that would break up the meditative aspect.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, jeeze.

Liz Wolfe: I just don’t think you can go to an ashram and expect to eat sardines in your car.

Diane Sanfilippo: Obviously, there’s not going to be a car. I don’t know. I don’t know what would happen. I’ve been there before, and they’re not ok with me bringing my own food. I don’t, I have no advice for her. I wouldn’t go to something like that, honestly. I just wouldn’t. For 3 days? I think I would feel miserable when I’m trying to have a really good experience, for me it would ruin it and not because I’m huffy and annoyed about it, but I honestly don’t think I would feel perfect or great, or in the best situation for it. I mean, I guess if you can do well eating high fat, moderate carb, low protein, I just don’t know what the vegetables she’s going to be able to eat there are. Will they cook things really well for you? Will you do well with well cooked veggies? Can you make any requests? I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Can you buy a thing of soy protein isolate, dump it out, and replace it with

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: whey protein? {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: That is so amazing! {laughs} Oh my gosh, that is genius.

Liz Wolfe: You’re welcome.

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, I don’t know. I guess it kind of sounds like no. I was thinking about, I went to move night, and they were trying to joke that lunch would be no meat, there would be no protein at lunch. Just during the day, this is how it would be. I was like, alright, well if I have enough avocado and olive oil, I think I’d be ok. I’ve definitely eaten a big salad with lots of pumpkin seeds and avocado and olive oil where the calories, I mean I could easily get a 500-calorie salad by adding tons of fat to it. I mean, it doesn’t really take that much. So, you know, if you can feel good eating that, maybe it’s ok. I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: I would think maybe a little bit of preparation. You know, going into it. Although, maybe, suddenly ripping out a bunch of stuff from your diet, maybe it will take you to another level meditation wise, just because your brain is going it…

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} You’ll be hallucinating because you’re so hungry!

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. I mean, I think there’s a little bit of that in this kind of culture.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Where you really are just kind of stripping away a lot of things and trying to access new levels of consciousness.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: So, I mean go for it, but just know that there may not be a great way to make it happen and still keep with what you want to keep with dietarily.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m not making light of it from the perspective of, it’s whatever. Whatever people want to eat is fine. I have issues when people impose their dietary rules on me.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: If it’s one meal, right, and somebody’s coming to my home and they know what it is for one meal, if somebody is a vegetarian and their coming to my house, I’m going to cook something that will accommodate them. You’re coming to me? I don’t know. I don’t like this idea. I think it’s enough that we all need to figure out what works for ourselves, so when there’s that layer of, ok now you’re making this thing harder for me to engage in because now you’re telling me what to eat. I just feel like, it’s a personal right that I don’t think people should be able to dictate, so I have issues with it. I mean, we’ve had this question many times in many forms. Right? We’ve had it from coworkers, we’ve had it from other types of yoga or spiritual retreats, and I’m just like, what is so spiritual about this way of eating? Why is it that people get so high on saying you’re not going to be eating any animal foods? I don’t know. I don’t agree with it, and I don’t like people imposing that on other people. I just think it’s unfair and inappropriate. So.

Liz Wolfe: But it’s only 3 days.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s only 3 days!

Liz Wolfe: #sardinesintheasharmabathroom.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Totally! It’s like, somebody trying to smoke in the bathroom, where the smoker thinks no one can smell it. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: The person’s like, standing squatting on the toilet so no one will see her feet, and she’s got her little tin of sardines. “no one will smell this, right?”

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh boy.

Liz Wolfe: Oh man.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I mean we’ve had this question, basically almost the same thing but like a month long. That was like, whoa. I just don’t. I don’t know. I’m really curious how that listener did at their month-long.

Liz Wolfe: I think that one was some kind of emotional rehab.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, right!

Liz Wolfe: Where we were like, you know what, you have to do this for your health in the first place.

Diane Sanfilippo: That was you.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. We kind of took different stances on that. But I mean, this type of thing being totally voluntary. Maybe Regina has to do this for her emotional well being. And maybe in that case, it’s a different thing.

Diane Sanfilippo: Is this Regina George? The Regina George {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Totally. I know right?

Diane Sanfilippo: I know right.

Liz Wolfe: I love that skirt on you. Ok, so sorry for not being helpful at all, but I really would like to know how this turns out. So, Regina, please let us know. Sorry we won’t be at AHS.

Diane Sanfilippo: She’ll be able to listen a few days before the trip, so hopefully it is helpful.

Liz Wolfe: Have fun. Say hi to everybody. Sorry I didn’t know about it. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Say hi to your mother for me.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Say hello to Lumberg for me! Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Done. So that’s it.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: We’ll be back next week. If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, remember to subscribe to the podcast and help us spread the word by leaving a review in iTunes. As always, you can find Diane at, and you can find me at Be sure to join our email lists, where we provide exclusive content to our subscribers that we don’t put anywhere else. Thanks for listening.

Cheers! Diane & Liz