Balanced Bites Podcast with Diane Sanfilippo & Liz Wolfe | Kids & Snacking

Podcast Episode #342: Kids & Snacking

Diane Sanfilippo Featured, Paleo and Primal, Podcast Episodes 2 Comments

Topics

  1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [1:48]
  2. A word about personal updates [9:40]
  3. Listener follow-up: healthy body fat [13:28]
  4. Kids and snacking [15:44]
  5. Developing a relationship with food [25:17]
  6. What I'm digging lately [38:20]

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You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 342.

Diane Sanfilippo: Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Diane; a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo and the brand new book, The 21-Day Sugar Detox Daily Guide. I live in San Francisco with my husband and fur kids.

Liz Wolfe: I’m Liz; a nutritional therapy practitioner, and author of the Wall Street Journal best-seller Eat the Yolks; The Purely Primal Skincare Guide; and the online program Baby Making and Beyond. I live on a lake in the mystical land of the Midwest, outside of Kansas City.

We’re the co-creators of the Balanced Bites Master Class, and we’ve been bringing you this award-winning podcast for more than 6 years. We’re here to share our take on modern paleo living, answer your questions, and chat with leading health and wellness experts. Enjoy this week’s episode, and submit your questions at http://balancedbites.com or watch the Balanced Bites podcast Instagram account for our weekly calls for questions. You can ask us anything in the comments.

Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Before we get started, let’s hear from one of our sponsors.

Liz Wolfe: Today’s podcast is sponsored by Vital Choice wild seafood and organics. The leading source of high quality, sustainably sourced wild seafood, and a certified B corporation. Spring has sprung, and it’s time for light but powerful paleo-friendly fare. Like omega-3 rich wild seafood and delicious grass-fed meats. For something easy and on the go, grab one of their pocket-sized tins of sardines, or some salmon or bison jerky. They’ve got our favorite wild salmon and shellfish; plus salmon burgers, dogs, bacon, and even organic bone broths. Check it all out at www.vitalchoice.com.

1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [1:48]

Liz Wolfe: Okie dokie. Diane, what’s up with you this week?

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, well, I just got a whole big delivery from Vital Choice. That was very exciting. It’s one of my favorite packages to get.

Liz Wolfe: Me too.

Diane Sanfilippo: About once every month or couple of months, I tend to stock up. Do you go big on those orders? I go big.

Liz Wolfe: Yes, I do. And I have to kind of hide it away. Kind of shuffle it away to the deep freezers because, I don’t know. I feel like I’ve been getting a lot of food deliveries between Vital Choice and US Wellness Meats lately. {laughs} We’re set for the summer, I think.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I like to squirrel it away, as well. Well, on that note, speaking of delicious food. Update-wise, the Balanced Bites spices are coming back. Yay! So for anybody who doesn’t know, the initial run that I did was sort of a beta run. They had gone through a few iterations. And I had tested them, and changed them. And then finally got to a place where I felt happy with them enough to release them.

However. If anyone has known me for any length of time, I’m constantly looking to improve on the things that I’m doing. And there were some improvements I wanted to make. And there are also new flavors coming. So be on the lookout for that. If you head over to Instagram, just at Balanced Bites, which used to be my own personal Instagram handle, for those who are OG’s around here.

But the at Balanced Bites account is the spices account, and you guys can check that out. I’ll be doing a bunch of giveaways and sharing lots of details when that all happens, and the new blends and everything is available. New blends, and the old blends will be back. So, super excited about that. It’s been a long time coming. So stay tuned for that.

What is going on with you? I think we’ve got at least one major update that I’m looking at, as we’re on this video call.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. I’m in my new closet. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: We moved. We’re kind of; not in the middle of it. But it’s like; I don’t even want to talk about it because moving sucks so bad. Oh my god, it sucks. But things are good. I talked about on a previous podcast that I just thought our time at the farm was coming to a close, despite the fact that I really wanted to fight for it. And I really wanted to make it work. It just wasn’t going to work. And I had to call it.

I mean, it was amazing. It was fun. There was nothing about it that was overtly wrong. There was just this feeling that I had given it three years, since my daughter was born, to figure out some semblance of balance between taking care of the farm, taking care of the animals, making a go of it. Doing with the property what we intended to do with the property when we moved there. Which was before we were even thinking about having kids. And also being a good mom. And also trying to do the other things that I want to do and having the appropriate support nearby to take care of my self and take care of my daughter and my family. We just called it.

And the crazy thing was, we got an offer on house before; I mean, it wasn’t even on the market yet. And somebody wanted it. They wanted all the animals. They already had all these plans for what they could do with it. Really good people that actually know my husband, so we’re kind of still in contact with them. We still were able to keep a couple of our chickens, which is wonderful. But it’s in good hands.

But the weird thing was, this was in the works for a while. I don’t know, I feel like anybody that’s bought a house, and you're going through this mortgage process. And at the time we were going through the mortgage process, we did not have renters for our New Jersey property. So basically we had two mortgages, and we’re asking for a third. And it just felt like at any moment, all of this could go away. And we’d be like; “Just kidding! {laughs} We’re stuck with this farm we’re going to have to figure it out. This other house is going to fall through.”

We were waiting on appraisals. And waiting on a million things. And just all of a sudden, we closed. And the papers were signed. And we had keys to this new house. And that was the moment when it actually felt real. We actually closed on the other house, and on this house, on the same day. So it wasn’t like, we closed on that house and we had a couple of weeks. It was like, boom, boom, boom.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s crazy.

Liz Wolfe: It was absolutely crazy. I was so lucky that my mom was on spring break. She’s a teacher. She was on spring break at the time. Because if we didn’t have her available to us to be able to get all this stuff done, we would have been doing it all with a toddler in tow. Which would have been; and not even toddler. Like, 3-year-old.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Which to me, was never toddler before, but I guess it’s still technically a toddler. But she is full on three. And it might be in part because we moved and there was this huge change and she just turned three. I don't know, I think there are a lot of things going on that are making her a little bit bonkers, and thus making me bonkers. But it’s just been incredibly intense and intense.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’m sure there are a lot of moms listening who are nodding along, like. Yup. I feel your pain.

Liz Wolfe: And I’m like; I am never moving again. We are staying here forever. But it’s good. We moved to a community on a little lake. This community has been here for like 100 years, almost. I grew up coming out here. My grandma lived here for many years. My parents live here now. So we’re literally right around the corner from my parents.

It’s been really hard, because I still have a lot of life an hour or so away where we moved from. I’m still driving the kid up for parent’s day out a couple of days a week, just to keep some consistency for her through the rest of the school year, and to see our amazing friends. I have the most amazing friends out there.

And it was tough. It was tough being like; ok. I want to be closer to my family, but I’m going to be farther away from my friends. So all of this happened within such a short amount of time, getting that offer on our house, and just jumping on it. I still have whiplash. It still doesn’t feel like this could be happening. So anyway. That’s the story right now.

And I guess professionally; maybe we should talk about something interesting there. More fun stuff happening; the Master Class. Our collaborative Balanced Bites Master Class is opening up again in June. So folks can stay tuned for more info on that. Do you have any stuff to add on that?

Diane Sanfilippo: So it’s coming. I’ve had a lot of folks asking about it again, recently. Because as of the time this episode airs, the sugar detox coaches program will have closed. But if you wanted to become a 21-Day Sugar Detox coach, but you didn’t have a nutrition certification, the Master Class actually can serve as that. And I’m currently in the process of figuring out if you can take the student track, and that will suffice. Or if you’ll need to do the practitioner track. I will definitely tell people about it on this show.

But since I know we have tons of folks who are either considering nutrition show who listen to the show. I know lots of you have heard us talk about the Master Class in the past, and maybe last year wasn’t the time for you, and maybe this year is the time for you. If you have had it on your mind to become a sugar detox coach, and you don’t have another type of nutrition certification, the Balanced Bites Master Class is plenty.

So join us for the Master Class when it opens up, and then next time the 21-Day Sugar Detox coaches opens up again, you’ll be plenty prepared for that. But I want for people to know that, because you will learn so much in the Master Class. The content in that class is very in-depth. And we have a lot of big things coming for that, as well. So we’ll definitely get to announcing that as it gets a little bit closer. Probably some time next month we’ll talk a little bit more about that. But yeah, I’m excited about that.

2. A word about personal updates [9:40]

Diane Sanfilippo: And you know, I think one thing to note about our personal updates that I think are actually very relevant and important. And as you were talking through kind of what you’re going through or what you’ve been through in the last several weeks. That all lays the foundation for the context and background to a lot of perspective that we end up offering to our listeners over the years.

Because as we go through different changes in our own lives, I know a lot of our listeners are probably either the same age as us or older and maybe it’s not quite as interesting to someone who’s already been through it. But to a lot of our younger listeners, I know we have tons of young women who listen. Hearing how we handle some of these life changes and challenges I think helps them get through it.

Whether we’re sharing insight as to what to do and what not to do, or just sharing the moment of, “Hey, this is some hard stuff.” I think them seeing that we can get through some hard stuff and be ok on the other side really gives them a little bit of solace when things get a little tough in their lives.

So, for anyone who is like; “Why do we hear Diane and Liz give personal updates every show?” Because that’s how you really get to know us. We’re not standing here waving a finger telling you what to eat every week because we think that’s the end-all, be-all of life. It’s really a more well-rounded perspective on how to handle all kinds of things. So I think hearing that foundation from you about going through the change of moving, I think that gives a lot of perspective to everything.

Liz Wolfe: I think probably the last 6 or 7 years has been this struggle for me. This process of accepting that life is really messy, and yucky, and hard, and amazing in a lot of ways all at the same time. Where I think that gives us a unique voice in the health community. Because we’re not; “This is how you stick with blah-blah-blah-blah when you're in a hard time!” I’m like, for me it’s like; let’s just be ok with kind of sucking at life here and there.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Because I think that’s a much more authentic and, I don’t know. Honest way, for me, to experience life. I’m just; I’m black and white on a lot of things. But I just can’t be rigid during these parts of life. It’s just too much stress and too hard. And I hope it helps people be like; it’s ok to have things be a little messy and exploded all over here and there. And you’ll pick up the pieces and put them back together.

Diane Sanfilippo: And what you're saying, actually, is the grace and the softness for not feeling guilt and shame about things being messy sometimes. Or somebody’s food being whatever it’s going to be for a few weeks because I think if we were those people who created this rigid structure of; here’s what’s healthy and what’s not. It just creates more guilt and shame for people who go through a period of time.

Like I know; when you're moving. It’s like, choices aren’t always ideal because you're trying to get through the process of moving. And some days, the choices seem a little healthier than others. I think that’s where you and I, over the years, have gotten to a place where we like being voices that are a bit more sane and balanced. I don’t know compared to what. It’s just, we know that people hear that a lot out there.

Liz Wolfe: Compared to how we used to be, probably, even.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} That’s true. That’s true.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. And from my personal experience, is there’s enough guilt and shame associated with parenthood. I don’t have room or space for anymore. {laughs} I just don’t.

3. Listener follow-up: healthy body fat [13:28]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so I wanted to share; or we wanted to share a quick follow-up from episode 337. Kelly reached out again, and we’re really, really happy that she did. This definitely gave us the warm fuzzies. So here’s some feedback from Kelly.

“Hello! I just wanted to write a response about episode 337, gaining body fat in a healthy way. You’d responded to my question on that episode, and I wanted to thank you for taking the time to talk through the message I submitted. You’d responded to my thoughts and questions about body fat, loss of period, hormones, etc.

I really appreciate what you shared. Although some of it was hard to hear, and honestly hearing my name on air was a bit of moment for me. Just being real. I’ve thought about that episode a lot since you aired it. I had a few friends who either listened, and knew it was me beforehand. Or I had a couple of friends who figured out that you were talking about me. And I have some new accountability partners with checking in on how I’m doing with eating more of the fats, and eating whole eggs, which I’m doing. And offers of yummy new nut butter options. And telling myself weight gain is an ok thing. Not always.

As for the hormones, I knew that there had to be more than my doctor was offering, or actually not offering, in terms of tests that could help me get a better picture of my hormone profile. Especially because I’m amenorrhoeic. I’m currently saving up for the DUTCH test, and you're probably right. Someone who can afford CrossFit can probably afford the DUTCH test. That made me laugh.

I just felt like I owed you a thank you for taking the time to offer your advice. I appreciate it more than you know. I greatly respect your opinion, and I think what your podcast offers for it’s listeners is so valuable, authentic, and beneficial. I appreciate you ladies so much. All the love; Kelly.”

We appreciate you too, Kelly.

Diane Sanfilippo: I love that. Yay! Thanks for writing back.

Diane Sanfilippo: Today’s podcast is sponsored by Perfect Keto. Dr. Anthony Gustin and his teams have created lines of supplements that are super clean and effective, no matter what your dietary needs. I’ve been blending the MCT oil powder into my matcha latte lately. Not only are MCTs, medium-chain triglycerides, a premium source of your body’s preferred type of energy and help to fuel your brain and body, but there’s also no added taste, and it makes your coffee, or matcha, wonderfully cream. Check them out at www.PerfectKeto.com and use the code Balanced for 20% off of Perfect Keto, and their sister products, Equip Foods.

4. Kids and snacking [15:44]

Liz Wolfe: OK. Today we are going to talk about kids and snacking. So we’ll start with this listener question that came in from Chelsea from Texas. “I was wondering what the general recommendations are from a whole foods, mostly paleo standpoint, on children needing snacks. My son is almost two, and eats a wide variety of nutrient dense food. I’ve never done snacks with him, and he overall doesn’t seem to need them. When lunch and dinner come around, he’s hungry and eats well. But he doesn’t act hungry; i.e. crazy, unless meal times are delayed too much.

Recently, he’s learned the word hungry, and throws it around throughout the day, at times when I’m unsure if he’s really hungry or knows what the word means. I feel like he’s getting enough to eat, but don’t want him to ignore his body. Likewise, I don’t want him to get in the habit of eating just because. Or not being hungry for meals because he has snacked.

I’m not concerned about his height and weight at all, just developing good habits and self-awareness for life. I recently posted in a parenting Facebook group, and was told that children need snacks. Is this consistent with the evidence of what you’ve seen with children who eat well otherwise? I’m worried if he comes to meals too hungry, he may be overeating at the particular meal before his brain catches up to his stomach.”

Let’s look a little bit. Ok, just for context about the kid. Not the kid in question. But for context. “Most meals, he will have some meat, veggie, dairy, and fruit. Sometimes some grain, oatmeal, sourdough, rarely pasta but usually not. As an example, this morning for breakfast he ate a banana, an egg fried in butter, a half a cup of whole yogurt, GAP style, 24-hour fermented, quarter of a large avocado, quarter cup blueberries. That’s about standard for his breakfast. He only drinks water, sometimes a couple of ounces of goat milk at breakfast.

Meal times 8:30-9, 12:30, 6:30-7. He takes a two to three-hour name in the afternoon. Bedtime 8:30-9, wakes around 7:30 or 8. He doesn’t get much screen time, so he isn’t totally sedentary. But we don’t get out on walks as much as I’d like. So just generally busy around the house and back yard. No supplements. Not strict in any particular way of eating. Etc. Etc.”

Well. I suppose this is my corner.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s your wheelhouse. I would like to comment that as I see people having young kids that take two to three-hour naps, because that seems to be the thing. I don’t know anything about kids, but I’m like; oh my gosh. Two to three-hour naps. Can I do that?

Liz Wolfe: Oh my gosh. You should.

Diane Sanfilippo: That seems like the best thing ever. And I feel like it would revitalize so many things in my life. I would like to go back to this. Two to three-hour naps for everybody.

Liz Wolfe: You could give it a try. It’s funny, because one of the things that new parents are always told is, sleep when the baby sleeps. Or sleep when the kid sleeps. But what’s funny is; just imagine existing inside of a circus. All day long. Where you can’t hear your own thoughts. {laughs} You can’t do anything with full attention. Because you’re paying attention to this other thing. And then the kid goes down, and you're like; oh my gosh. I can hear my to-do list in my head. Finally! I can hear what I need to get done.

So you're running around doing that, instead of napping. Which is just… and then in hindsight you're like; man I should have slept when the kid slept. I’m just now learning that, at like 3 years in. It’s like; you need to just put everything else aside. And it really is ok if you do that. And I totally agree with you. I advocate two to three-hour naps for everyone. As often as possible.

So. On this note. First I will kind of give a little bit from our experience. I want people to know that it is really, really easy to armchair quarterback these things when you are giving other people advice, or when you are not the primary care giver. So I even think, and I’m speaking. I didn’t think about this beforehand, so hopefully I don’t get myself into trouble here. But I have felt like there have been a lot of non-primary caregiver parents in the podcast land giving advice about children. And I’m going to get myself into trouble. Because I don’t mean this in a mean way. But I feel like, when you are the parent that is just kind of the default one, this ends up looking a little bit different. And a little bit more nuanced. And a little bit more difficult.

And I say that, because; let me give this quick example. My husband and I both work. We probably both put in approximately equal hours into working on some weeks. We share childcare duties. We share cooking. We share everything. But my kid was playing with her little vehicles the other day. And was saying, “Now this is daddy going to work. And mommy is going to work, and make lunch, and stay home, and blah, blah, blah.” So, I basically realized, despite the fact that we’re sharing all responsibilities, I’m still the default caregiver. Does that make sense Diane? Just one person kind of becomes the default?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think it makes total sense.

Liz Wolfe: OK. So I’m not saying…

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m nodding along. Yes.

Liz Wolfe: I’m not saying not being the default caregiver is putting you in a position where you can’t truly understand what’s going on. But I do think that generally, one of the caretakers, when there are two in these types of relationships. Some people are just doing this themselves, and all hail to you.

But when there are two, I think there’s often one that can kind of speak to it, maybe, but doesn’t entirely get it.

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, I think it’s just like being a business owner, or being a second in command.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: The business owner never turns off thinking about the business. But the second in command can kind of like; 5 p.m. comes, or the second… the other parent can go to work, and there’s a period of time where, yes of course they still think about the kid. But it’s not this literal constant attention is just flipped on.

Liz Wolfe: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: Naturally, my parents are that way. My mom is the primary. She’ll never stop that ongoing; “What are my kids doing? How are they? Is everything ok?” My dad’s probably like. “Oh, hi. How you are doing?” You know. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Oh, Diane called.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. “Oh. Hi Diane. How you doing?” {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: “Oh yeah, we have a daughter.” No I’m kidding. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Very well said. And your dad probably wasn’t like; “Oh, I hope Diane ate a good breakfast today.” But until I am dust in the wind, I will be wondering if my kid had a good breakfast. {laughs} So, hopefully that was expressed. And thank you for kind of condensing that, Diane. But hopefully people are not taking offense to what I’m saying.

The point is; I could stand here and say. “Wow this looks great. Nutrient dense diet. Snacks are probably not necessary, unless you're noticing symptoms of low blood sugar, and things like that. All of these things that make kids crazy. You can either tweak what you're doing at mealtime, or you can add some kind of equally nutrient-dense snack.” I think where people get tripped up is that snacks are generally more delicious and fun to eat than the normal meals, and that’s where you get tripped up, right?

I can say all those things. But I want to say that I understand from personal experience that in practice, it’s really, really hard to just give blanket thoughts and recommendations on these things. I’m sure there are people out there in podcast land that would be more than willing to make more explicit recommendations on this stuff. “Kids don’t generally need snacks. Have them eating three really well-rounded, nutrient dense meals each day that have healthy fats, and lots of nutrients, and plenty of high-quality protein, and nourishing, whole-food based carbohydrates. And they should be fine. The rare snack is no problem, but you should be good the way you are.” I feel like there are people that would say that.

But I would be very dishonest if I didn’t say that my 3-year-old, in the last couple of weeks. In part because we’ve been moving. Has probably gotten the bulk of her calories from snacks. And those snacks have included things like non-GMO popcorn popped in coconut oil. At times, there are phases of survival mode. And I think there are ways to get in good nutrition as much as you can when snacking is kind of overtaking your life. But also the awareness that that happens, and you kind of need to pull back the reigns on that.

So, this person that’s asking the questions; to me, you're doing great. Your kid is going to grow. There will be growth spurts, and he’s going to need more. And there are going to be times that he needs less. And that’s fine. But my thought is; until it gets to the point when, like it was kind of expressed in this question. Kid is wanting snacks, and not really interested in meal time because one, snack foods are way more delicious. And two, they’ve eaten so much at snack time that they’re not as hungry at meal time. That’s when you can kind of start to move pieces around.

But I don’t think worrying too much about snacking, yay or nay, in the context of an overall nutrient-dense diet. It’s just not that big of a question for me. There’s no; “Oh, kids need snacks!” But yeah, I usually have an apple in my purse. You know.

5. Developing a relationship with food [25:17]

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And I think the other thing she was asking about him having learned the word hungry, and then maybe throwing it around. She’s saying that he’s almost 2. So I feel like, I don’t know what the development stages of kids really understanding all the words that they’re learning is. But I imagine that if he hears the word and repeats it, but doesn’t fully understand what it means now, there will be a time that he will understand what it means fully. And you’ll be able to describe it to him, and ask him. Do you know what this word means? Here’s what hungry feels like. Is that what you’re saying?” At a certain point, you can have that conversation. It might take a little more time.

But I think in the couple of years, before that logic develops. If you are feeding your kids snacks that are healthy by whatever standard you want them to be, I think this idea of potentially overfeeding your kid healthy food. I really think giving them the benefit of the doubt to eat to satiety of whatever it is. And to your point, Liz. The responsibility of not making too many exciting, just fun to eat foods available. Yeah, as a parent, you probably know. And you're like; eh, I’m probably doing too much of this because I know these are just snack foods that they like because they taste good or they’re fun to eat. Versus.

Liz Wolfe: Or they will encourage compliance. Because I cannot fight her into the car one more time today. {laughs} That’s my reality.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. But if that looks like giving your kid another apple, or an almond butter packet, or whatever it looks like. I think asking this question to this level of minutia, when it is healthy food. I think that we’re getting tripped up on things that might not be the most important.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, yeah. I think that’s just something that will happen and develop over time. And this is coming from somebody who; no. I don’t have kids. And I would never be like; here’s what you should do with your kid. I’m just expressing from the perspective of; at some point, you’ll be able to have a conversation about what hungry means. If you’re concerned that he doesn’t know what it means now. This too shall pass, you know.

Liz Wolfe: And perhaps in what I mentioned about primary caregivers being the ones that kind of get it. I guess I’m saying there’s a difference between being in the trenches. The reality, the day to day, the application of these wonderful ideas that we hold dear in the real food community. And there’s also value to the perspective of someone who maybe sees things a little bit more objectively. And that’s cool. But we just have to maybe acknowledge the fact that giving advice and sets of ideas around these things are different from being in the trenches and fighting the battle all day every day.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. You know your kid better than anyone else.

Liz Wolfe: Well, yeah. And I also know that sometimes I kind of suck a little bit at parenting. I dip below my baseline fairly frequently. And that’s normal, and that’s going to happen. And the kid is fine.

The other thing I wanted to make sure to mention. We’ve talked about this in at least one previous episode. Maybe more. But I like the values of the Satter Institute around eating and childhood and things like that. And I think one of the core values is; and I’m probably going to butcher this. But the parent decides what the food is, and the kid decides how much. So it is important that what you make available is reasonably healthy a majority of the time.

One of the things that I do is I do let my kid have gluten free animal crackers, but only at PDO. So she sees them in the cabinet, she asks for them, but I say, “No, those are only for PDO.” So she gets those treats, but just not necessarily at home. And that seems to help a little bit with boundaries. Because kids do really benefit from understanding what the boundaries are in some consistency around them. I screw that up all the time. But at the very least, I know she knows that animal crackers are for PDO. So that’s a little bit of a win for me, right?

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm. I saw my friend, I think it was my friend Robyn Youkilis, whose kid is 2 also. I feel like she shared a screen shot of something. And I want to say that the method that she follows for parenting is called the RIE Method.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah. Not to get too much into that. I discovered RIE before my daughter was born. And I’m incredibly, incredibly grateful for that. It was kind of my stepping stone toward aware parenting. I think the two philosophies have amazing attributes. I don’t agree with everything in RIE; any more than I agree with everything in any other parenting philosophy. But it was one of the more eye-opening things that I came across. And I will always be grateful I found it before my daughter was born, for sure.

Diane Sanfilippo: There was something that they mentioned. I don’t know your take or your experience with this, or how that will develop over time as well. I mean, I say this without any judgement to whether or not people have done it. It’s just an awareness of; oh, ok. That’s interesting. I hadn’t thought of that.

But when looking at food; I think there is often a very obvious path to maybe bribery. Or, I need to get the kid to do the thing, and here’s the apple. I say all of this without judgement, because like I said. I’m sure I would be doing the same thing.

I think they were talking about avoiding food as reward for certain things. And I can see as an adult how that very clearly avoiding that might help us to avoid where we land as adults. I’m really curious, and this is kind of a tangential conversation, if I’m even pronouncing it right. But, parallel conversation about snacks and food and rewards and all of that. And I’m curious about adults who don’t have any emotional issues around food. Who are those people? Can they show their faces, please?

If they didn’t go through periods of time where food was used as reward, or taking food away as punishment. I’m curious about that. But not in the context of real food, though. Because I feel like when it’s real food; I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: I think you circumvent some of that with real food. So, backing up. I do think my child was incredibly easy to deal with, with the food stuff, until about two months ago. {laughs} So, until they’re like 2.5, for me, it was like; this is easy! You know. I don’t use food as reward or whatever. That kind of RIE. And also this aware parenting tackles this food issue stuff from very, very early in life. Which is really interesting to me. Because I think a lot of patterning does happen before even the first year. So I think for a lot of kids before they even start solids, there is some patterning around nourishment, authentic hunger, and things like that. So I appreciate that discussion. I think it’s really, really important.

At the same time; over time you're just layering more and more things on top of each other, right? Activities. And timelines. And I think ideally you wouldn’t have a ton of stuff on your schedule. You wouldn’t have a million things to get to. But at the same time, you're balancing what your kid wants to do, and loves to do versus; oh this philosophy says we should spend lots of time at home and not overschedule. And blah, blah, blah. So you're balancing a million different things. And sometimes, a bag of popcorn is what gets them in the car.

And, I don’t want people to ever feel judged or incorrect, or feel ashamed, or feel like they’re sucking at parenting, because they’ve made that choice here or there. We can always course correct. We can take that information from whatever parenting philosophy it is. RIE. Aware parenting. Whatever it is. Put it into context with our lives, and just kind of imagine how we might move towards greater balance.

So I really like that point that you bring up. I think it also matters how old the kid is. What your experience in life is, and all that stuff. And you know all that stuff. You're the queen of context. But I don’t want people; it’s so easy as moms to see what somebody else is doing and saying; “Oh crap, I’m not doing that so I’m doing it wrong.” There’s so much more than just; “Oh, that’s a good idea. I’m not doing it. I’m bad.” You know what I mean?

Diane Sanfilippo: 100%. I mean, it’s exactly the same with adults. And I think as adults, somehow we get to a point where maybe we do realize that we’re also different. But somehow, parents feel, I don’t know, maybe a pressure to keep things conforming until a certain time.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Well a lot of these philosophies, honestly, present themselves that way. Like, this is the only way to do it. It works for all children. And that’s really scary. It’s just another thing that makes you question yourself as a parent. And we just have to be aware of that. Because there’s so much value in these particular philosophies. There’s so much to learn. But at the same time, we have to really, really understand that just because it doesn’t look like that doesn’t mean you're doing it wrong.

Diane Sanfilippo: Amen! I love that.

Liz Wolfe: I got a coherent thought out! {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: No, it’s so well-rounded. And I want to throw this out there, too, to our listeners. Liz and I talk about this often. And this is often, much respect to our parents. We’re pretty sure they didn’t even really think about this stuff the same way.

Liz Wolfe: Nope. Yeah. We ate popcorn for dinner like every night, my mom tells me.

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, mac and cheese.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m sure fruit snacks that were not the organic healthy kind, whatever. We’re fine. We’re fine, well adjusted, lovely young women. Women. We’re not even young women anymore! {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: No. What happened to that?

Diane Sanfilippo: But you know, I really want for people to have a little bit of that perspective. Because it is so easy to get into the micro level of everything, and feel so much guilt around all these decisions. And I think at the end of the day, loving your kid and providing a nurturing environment is really…

Liz Wolfe: Bird’s eye view.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And it’s the only think that you can know for sure contributes positively to their lives. Because you really have no idea about any of the rest of it.

Liz Wolfe: That’s so true!

Diane Sanfilippo: Every parent; you will screw up your kid in some way. We’re all screwed up. We all have our own stuff to deal with. So living and walking on eggshells as you're parenting, thinking, “I’m trying not to screw my kid up the whole time.” It’s not worth the stress, because it’s going to happen. Whether it’s through you or through school or through something. That is life. That is what happens in life. Anyway.

Liz Wolfe: Chelsea’s question seemed very balanced. I was imagining Chelsea just kind of being this goddess, making her 24-hour fermented yogurt with this 2-year-old that’s eating…

Diane Sanfilippo: She’s Pinteresting things and doing them nicely.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. She sounded; the question didn’t sound frenzied and what I am in my head 24 hours a day; which is, “Oh god, what did I do? Why did I do that wrong? Blah-blah-blah-blah.” You know. This happened, so 20 years from now she’s going to step in a pothole and choose the wrong man. It’s just all going to fall apart.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: So, the latter. What I just described. Is what I want people to avoid. But dude, you know, if you’re doing your 24-hour yogurt, and you’re just chilling. Crafting a beautiful birthday party and all that; get on with your bad self. You're doing a great job. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants (including me; Liz, I’m an NTP), emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal. The NTA’s nutritional therapy practitioner program and new fully online nutritional therapy consultant program empower graduates with the education and skills needed to launch a successful, fulfilling career in holistic nutrition. To learn lots more about the NTA’s nutritional therapy programs, go to http://www.NutritionalTherapy.com. Registration is open for their May NTP and NTC courses, so grab your seat today.

6. What I’m digging lately [38:20]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, our next segment. We’ll call it, What I’m digging. Diane, what are you digging these days?

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m digging it so much that I’m doing a little happy dance over here in my chair. My watermelon wonder kombucha. It’s GTs. Previously; the kombucha previously known as Liberty. Which, last summer, I think it pretty much became my crutch getting through editing the last book. I mean, if I were one to drink alcohol, that probably would have been a time that I would have felt the need. I actually. Yeah. I’m more of a kombucha girl.

So anyway. Watermelon wonder. I finally found it here in San Francisco at Molly Stones. I bought a whole case. If you follow my Instagram stories, you saw my excited. That’s saying it lightly. Post about finding it. And I’m very much enjoying it. And I’m very much limiting myself to one per day. Because otherwise I think I could have a problem. And it tastes kind of like Jolly Ranchers. So people are asking what it tastes like. Because it’s watermelon and cherry. It is excellent. So that’s something I’m digging lately. What about you?

Liz Wolfe: I’m digging Primally Pure charcoal deodorant. I think I’ve finally found the natural deodorant that I’m going to stick with.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s exciting.

Liz Wolfe: It’s amazing, yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s the holy grail, isn’t it?

Liz Wolfe: Well, you know, it just feels like, with the natural deodorant thing. You're trying 15 different brands, and each one of them you're like; this kind of feels the same. This kind of feels the same. But this is like; it goes on really smooth. It’s not; you think charcoal and you think it’s going to leave dark stains or whatever. It does not, at all. Although I will say I don’t wear a whole lot of white. But I did yesterday and it was fine. It goes on really smooth. There is baking soda in it, but it has not irritated my armpits at all. It lasts all day.

I’ve had no stinking, and this is coming; I’ve been using it for months. I’ve been using it through the winter when you have that sweater closet stink in your armpits.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Lovely.

Liz Wolfe: It’s just gross. You’ve just been incubating your armpits. But I want to say; folks that have issues with a lot of irritation with “natural” deodorants, they are often times slathering it on too high and too far down to wear. Just feel where your arm, when you swing your arms, where it rubs against your side. The armpit doesn’t experience that type of rubbing. So just check yourself and make sure you're not spreading it a little bit too far up and down. That’s kind of step number one.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s a good point.

Liz Wolfe: Because if you're experiencing irritation, and it’s not right there in the pits, it’s probably an application problem and not just a sensitivity thing.

Diane Sanfilippo: Liz, I appreciate your attention to detail on the actual legit; I’m demoing this in the video. The legit diameter of the arm pit area being much smaller than we think. Because I think that could be one of the reasons why I had some irritation with some natural deodorants. It for sure was in an area that was not; it was pit-adjacent I should say.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Good. Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh boy.

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so that’s it for this week. You can find me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/ and you can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. While you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review. We would greatly, greatly appreciate it. See you next week.

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