Coconuts & Kettlebells with Noelle Tarr & Stefani Ruper

Podcast Episode #360: Coconuts & Kettlebells with Noelle Tarr & Stefani Ruper

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Coconuts & Kettlebells with Noelle Tarr & Stefani RuperTopics

  1. News and updates from Diane [1:48]
    1. Keto book news
    2. The Body Awareness Project
    3. Meet up with Liz and Cassy coming up
  2. Introducing our guests, Stefani Ruper and Noelle Tarr [5:43]
  3. Coconuts and Kettlebells, the new book [12:47]
  4. Bread versus butter lover [20:20]
  5. Determining what works for your body [28:45]
  6. Favorite exercise and exercise you'd like to try [39:02]
  7. Muscle soreness and rest days [43:51]
  8. Body fat and yoyo dieting [49:27]
  9. CrossFit and intermittent fasting [1:03:08]


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Coconuts & Kettlebells with Noelle Tarr & Stefani Ruper Coconuts & Kettlebells with Noelle Tarr & Stefani Ruper Coconuts & Kettlebells with Noelle Tarr & Stefani Ruper Coconuts & Kettlebells with Noelle Tarr & Stefani Ruper

You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 360.

Diane Sanfilippo: Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Diane; a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo and the new 21-Day Sugar Detox Daily Guide. I live in San Francisco with my husband and fur kids.

I’m the co-creator of the Balanced Bites Master Class with my podcast partner in crime, Liz. And together we’ve been bringing you this award-winning podcast for almost 7 years. We’re here to share our take on modern healthy living, answer your questions, and chat with leading health and wellness experts. Enjoy this week’s episode, and submit your questions at http://balancedbites.com or watch the Balanced Bites podcast Instagram account or Facebook group for our weekly calls for questions. You can ask us anything in the comments.

Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Before we get started, let’s hear from one of our sponsors.

Liz Wolfe: Today’s podcast is sponsored by Vital Choice wild seafood and organics. America’s leading purveyor of premium, sustainable seafood and grass-fed meats, and a certified B corporation. Now’s the time to grill some sparkling wild seafood and mouthwatering grass-fed meats. Their selection includes wild salmon, fish and shellfish, grass-fed beef and bison. Plus premium pastured chicken and pork. Vital Choice offers fabulous foods for work or outdoor adventures. Luscious, fresh tasting canned salmon, sardines, or tuna. Wild salmon or bison jerky, and more. Be sure to save 15% on one regular order with the promo code BBPODCAST or get $15 off your first Vital Box with the promocode BBVITALBOX from now through the end of the year.

1.48

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright you guys. A quick update. I’m working on the keto book. I’ve been hard at work for months now. And I’m guessing some of you have noticed that Liz has been taking over on episodes, which is one of the most beautiful things about having a cohost, that we can kind of shoulder that responsibility for one another when we’ve got different busy seasons in our lives and projects that we’re working on and all kinds of stuff. So definitely appreciating that support from Liz, who I love.

And just working away on this book. I can’t wait for you guys to get it. I think you're really going to enjoy it. I think a lot of you will learn a lot from it. Some of you may not be surprised by my take on a lot of this stuff. One of the things I shared recently in my Instagram stories is that when I first was eating keto, it was late 2010 into early 2012. Which spans the time when I was writing Practical Paleo. So it’s a really interesting thing for me to decide to put that hat on again, and really share with everyone my take on it.

I have a lot of personal experience with it, and I’ve coached others on it, as well. Not as much recently, but I did back then. It’s just really interesting how this whole thing has been growing and coming to a head out there in the blogosphere, the internet, and the world. I’m just looking forward to seeing how everyone receives the book and uses it and finds benefit from it. So that’s that.

A quick update on the Body Awareness Project. A lot of you know that Liz and I both participated in Emily Schromm’s Body Awareness Project that was all about skin. This second installment is all about adrenal health. I sat down with Emily, and we had an amazing conversation. I think you guys are absolutely going to love this whole project, and this whole second part of it. And I think you will get something from the conversation she and I had that I’ve probably not shared too much before.

I know some of you have listened to episodes here on the podcast about adrenal fatigue, but I know Emily is covering it in a lot of different ways in the project. So definitely check that out. And I think you can just head over to Instagram; Body Awareness Project, and you’ll see some more details on how to get in on that.

And I’m looking forward, in just a few weeks, to hanging out with my friend, Liz again. And actually we’ll be with Cassy Joy, as well, on a trip that we’re all going to be on for our Beautycounter businesses that we have all been growing over the last several years. It’s been such a fun and rewarding part of my life and my business. I think the connections we’ve made with the women on our teams has been so enriching and I’m really excited to be able to connect with those two ladies, and just kind of; we’ll probably be sharing a little bit behind the scenes of our trip. So stay tuned for that; probably to all of our Instagrams and Instagram stories.

Diane Sanfilippo: Today’s podcast is sponsored by Kettle and Fire bone broth and soups. We’ve talked about bone broth before and the many benefits, but to name a few, it’s been shown to reduce inflammation, improve digestion, and improve the quality of your skin. While I do like to make my own bone broth, there’s not always time for that. Kettle and Fire is the next best thing. They use organic chicken bones, and a slow simmer time to extract as much protein as possible. Not to mention that they use chicken feet; yay! Which increases the collagen and gelatin. And you can store it directly on your shelf for up to two years. Which is pretty cool, considering they’re a fresh, never frozen broth with no added preservatives or additives. Check them out at www.KettleandFire.com/BalancedBites and use coupon code BalancedBites for 10% off, plus free shipping when you get six cartons or more. That’s one per customer. It’s 10% off, and free shipping on six cartons or more.

5.43

Diane Sanfilippo: OK, so today I have Noelle Tarr and Stefani Ruper on the show to chat about health and fitness, and their new book, Coconuts and Kettlebells. Which released Tuesday of this week, August 7th.

To give you a quick background on these ladies; Noelle Tarr is a nutritional therapy practitioner and a certified personal trainer through the national strength and conditioning association. In addition to managing the health and fitness blog, CoconutsandKettlebells.com, she owns an online wellness practice specializing in an individual approach to health and fitness, and is the creator of Strong from Home, and online base fitness program.

She’s been featured as an expert on health and fitness in multiple summits, conferences, podcasts, and national magazines. She lives in Fairfax, Virginia, with her husband, her new baby, Stella, and her two boxer dogs. You can find her online at CoconutsandKettlebells.com and at Coconuts and Kettlebells, and at Well-fed Women, which is the podcast that Stefani and Noelle cohost.

Stefani founded the website PaleoforWomen.com in 2012, and is regarded as a leading authority on the paleo diet for women. She’s commonly featured in webinars, summits, conferences, and speaks to audiences nationwide. She’s the author of Sexy by Nature, and holds a bachelor’s degree in biogeochemistry from Dartmouth College, a Master’s degree in philosophy from Boston University, and is currently working towards a PhD in philosophy at the university of Oxford. She splits her time between San Francisco and Oxford, UK. You can find her online at PaleoforWomen.com and at Paleo for Women. And again, at Well-fed Women. That’s their podcast account.

Welcome to the show! We have Noelle and Stef here. How are you guys doing?

Noelle Tarr: Really good. Hi!

Stefani Ruper: Good, yeah, hi! We’ve been podcasting all day. So…

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} It’s like a press circuit. Like a press junket kind of deal.

Stefani Ruper: Yeah, except I’m in my pajamas. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, there’s nothing better than a podcast circuit, I will say. Well I’m excited to chat with you guys. I got to chat with you a couple of weeks ago on your show; Well-fed Women. Yes?

Noelle Tarr: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: Is it still called that? I’m like, wait a minute. Am I in a time warp? And I know you guys have a new book that we’re going to talk about in a second. But before we get into any of that, let’s just do a quick little ice breaker. And I want to hear; what’s a new thing that each of you are into lately? It can be anything. It can be health and wellness. It can be fitness. It can just be around the house. Just something that you're into lately.

Stefani Ruper: Noelle?

Noelle Tarr: {laughs} I was like; Stefani?

Stefani Ruper: {laughs}

Noelle Tarr: Ok, so this is going to be a very general example. But I did have a baby about a year ago. And for the majority of my life, I’ve put a lot of identity in being the fitness girl. And that’s a big passion of mine. But I haven’t really done a lot of fitness in the last year. And that’s because it’s really hard when you have a baby. And I’ve had some lower back issues, and pelvic floor issues. So I got a really good, expensive stroller. And I’m just into walking right now. And I love it, because I can take her, and it’s totally cool. She doesn’t fuss in the stroller. And I just like being outside and walking.

I have really let go of the pressure I used to put on myself to; “today’s a good day if I get a workout in.” And I no longer define my day by that. So I just do what works for my body, and right now that is walking. So that’s really been almost the center of my day, is getting a good walk in. I know, so cheesy.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not cheesy at all. And you guys know Liz, who is my podcast cohost, had a baby a little more than three years ago. So; I’ve gone through chatting with her about all of that. Which it’s really interesting to be the friend sounding board who is not a mom.

So Stef, what’s something that you're into lately?

Stefani Ruper: Something that I have been really appreciating, probably for the first time in my life, is having a circadian rhythm. Like, I go to bed at almost the exact same time every day. And I wake up at almost the exact same time. And I have to sort of make that happen. And I do that by; when I wake up. I was going to say in the morning, but I wake up at noon. So when I wake up at noon, I go for an hour long cycle, or sorry, bike ride. We call them cycles in the UK. So I do an hour of exercise outside. And then I eat a really big meal. And that sets me up for the whole day.

And I never feel exhausted. And I feel like for the 30 years before this, I was exhausted all the time. All day, every day. And now I’m just; I understand how people have the energy to get up and go through their days. It’s totally bizarre. And I just super, super recommend it. I’m an adult now, and I want to have some energy.

Diane Sanfilippo: That is awesome. I think it’s so interesting that we somehow assume that we should be on an American circadian rhythm cycle. Or, you know; east coast, west coast. Wherever it is that we were born, I feel like sometimes we were made to live somewhere else. At least for a while. I know that sounds weird. But being on the west coast, I feel like my body is just more aligned with the time than when I go elsewhere. But maybe that’s just because it’s California, where I feel at home.

Stefani Ruper: Well that’s interesting, because when I’m in California, I do kind of do the midnight to 8 a.m. thing. I do a slightly more normal schedule. But when I'm in the UK; I have so many friends in the states and everything. So being up late at night. And I get to be in the library, and it’s quiet. So I do switch based on where I am. But also; I think maybe because California is just the furthest west. Like; ok, everybody is sleeping. Time for us to go to sleep.

Noelle Tarr: Yeah, but also; where are you happy, too? If you're happy on the west coast. That has to play into it.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think so. To that point; it is 10 p.m. where Stef is recording. And I’m just throwing that out there, just in case the other two of us happened to sound slightly more awake {laughs}. Because it is still daylight hours. I’m throwing the caveat just in case. We don’t know, Stef. I think you’re going to be just fantastic. But if it were me at 10 o’clock at night; I would be in my pajamas. 10 o’clock is my bedtime, that I aim for, at least. So I’m just appreciative that you made the time to do this that wasn’t at like 7 a.m. my time. So thank you for that.

Stefani Ruper: Of course, thank you. I imagine we’ve actually been awake a similar number of hours. I tend to sleep on schedules; American schedules.

Diane Sanfilippo: Interesting.

Stefani Ruper: Yeah.

12.47

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. Ok. So, we’re going to go into a bunch of listener questions. Because, first of all, I think we have a lot of crossover listeners. I think a lot of our listeners listen to your podcast, which is awesome. We love having shared female voices out there in the community. It’s just such a lovely thing to know, that we can all provide balanced takes on things. Because I think that’s one thing that Liz and I have prided ourselves on offering over the years. We actually changed the subtitle to our podcast from modern paleo living. We actually don’t really just talk about paleo anymore. And I think that’s kind of a nice central theme of your show, too. It’s not really just about one hardcore thing. It’s about finding a lot of balance in all kinds of ways. Having two different perspectives on that.

I’d love to hear a little bit more about the background of what you guys decided to do, taking things from what you were doing in a podcast to putting together a book. Because the book is Coconuts and Kettlebells; personalized four-week food and fitness plan for long-term health, happiness, and freedom. It’s gorgeous. I just got it here a couple of days ago. But why don’t you talk a little bit about that based on what you’ve been doing with the podcast and both of your work over the years and where this came from.

Stefani Ruper: So, Noelle and I have been working together for quite a while now. And we’ve taken a lot of steps forward in our journey. As I’m sure you're really familiar with. Noelle and I met when Noelle applied to work for me when I released my first book and I realized I could do nothing on my own, competently. And Noelle was extremely competent at everything, actually. So she spent a year improving my business and building her own business. And then it was like; hey. We’re going to be partners. And we’re going to do a podcast. And we’re going to be charming and wonderful {laughs}.

This is the third time I’ve called us charming today, in public. So then we started the podcast, and everything sort of developed. We realized that we had this core set of principles, and a way that we could reach people and help people in a way that wasn’t being talked about. Especially with, again, you mentioned the fad stuff or the silver bullet stuff. These ways that people sell a specific nutrition thing. And obviously, we can’t escape the fact that we sell a thing. Because everything has a thing; an idea that they’re promoting.

But we wanted to be able to teach people that bodies are different. And humans are different. And you might need something different than somebody else needs. So if they do good with a low-fat diet, maybe you do good with a low-carb diet. Or vice-versa. Right? We also realized, because we had been working in this sphere for so many years, that a lot of problems that people had was actually being able to do these things sustainably. And to do it in a way that was psychologically healthy. And a lot of times, people don’t pay a lot of attention to the psychological stuff. Or think that we’re just hand waving.

But paying attention to your psychological health is extremely important for how you manage your physical health. It’s all very interconnected. So we wanted to provide a way for people to be healthy physically, but do it in a smart way. Do it in a sustainable way. Do it in a way that feels good, so you stick to it.

So we sort of took all these principles, and put them together, and came up with this magnificent book. Tada! {laughs}

Noelle Tarr: {laughs} Yeah, and just to add to that. I think Stef and I have had our own; gosh, decades of experimenting with diets, and we’ve tried everything. I’m sure you have too. We wanted a lot of time and effort trying to manipulate our food and our fitness in order to look one specific way and have this specific body type that society was telling us that we needed to have. We needed to be lean and make sure you don’t have cellulite. All of these things. So that really consumed our lives.

I kind of think we both; probably had realizations at the same time, even when we didn’t know each other. But it was just this idea that; wow. We are driven by shame. Shame is all throughout all this diet culture and diet marketing. And they really do a good job of making you feel terrible about something about yourself. Whether it’s the fact that you don’t have a six pack, or whatever it is. And saying, “I’m going to help you get 6-pack abs in the next 21 days!” That’s really what drives marketing. This messaging is just fed to us constantly.

So once we both had gotten out of that world, and really saw what was going on. It was like; we’ve got to do something about this! And that’s when I was like; we’ve really got to get a podcast going. Because I think that is really what’s going to reach people the best way. And once the questions; I’m sure you guys have seen this. Once the questions flood in, and you see that people want more of that. It was like, yeah! We’ve got to do this in a greater capacity.

So a lot of the questions that came in were; like, let’s take these questions and answer them in a book so that people can give that to friends and we can reach more people.

Diane Sanfilippo: Definitely. And the tricky part; you guys know that I’ve been through this. And I know this is what it takes when you get something into a book. It’s like; you do have to define some kind of approach for people when you want to put it in a book. Because people can’t follow a nebulous cloud of general wellbeing advice.

I sometimes compare it to what it’s like for someone like me who is not a personal trainer. I’m a nutritionist; I’m not a personal trainer. And I know what I’m doing in the gym. Just like a lot of people who probably listen to both of our podcasts, and are going to read your book. They know what real food is, but there’s still always this place of, “let me try a program and see how this works for me.”

And I think, Stef, to your point about the psychological side. What I love about people like you guys, and myself and Liz, being women who give dietary nutrition advice, is that we always have a ton of context and a ton of “here’s how to know if it’s working for you or not.” Not just like; “This will work. And if it doesn’t then you're doing it wrong.” Or, to shame you about that.

So that’s one of the things that I love about the fact that; yeah, we need to put some kind of rules in place or guidelines because otherwise what are people following? And they just have more and more questions. They don’t know where to start to then allow themselves to feel it. And then say; oh, is this working for me or not. At least we give them a starting point. And a soft landing for; “tell us if it’s not working for you. We can direct you in a different way.”

20.20

Diane Sanfilippo: One of the things you guys have in the book is this bread lovers versus butter lovers approach. I want you to tell people what that is.

Stefani Ruper: Awesome, I believe is the answer to that question. So, bread and butter lover was something that we went back and forth on a lot with our publisher and our whole team. It was because, obviously we don’t cook with bread and butter in our programs. We also, in our lives, don’t. {laughs} I do, I guess, have a soft spot for bread in my heart. But we don’t eat bread, we don’t eat butter, really.

What these things are are ways; cute ways. I told you it was awesome {laughs}. Cute ways to talk about whether you are better suited to a higher carbohydrate or a higher fat diet. Bread represents the carb lovers; that’s me. The butter represents the fat lovers; which is Noelle. And we really believe that this whole culture of somebody having; again, this one specific fix, is not right. And we provide these flexibilities.

Also; you do not have to be either a bread lover or a butter lover. You can just eat both. You don’t have to be. But like you said; we provide these tools. We provide these ways of eating; these habits, these patterns. So you can just follow the bread or butter lover meal plan.

I really believe in nuance. So usually when I write books, and things, I just write tons and tons of theory and data, maybe. And Noelle looks at me and she’s like; nobody. Nobody. The whole time we were writing this book, Noelle was like, “Stefani. Did you just put an equation in here? Why did you put an equation in here?” She’s like, we need meal plans. And we built the meal plans. And I’m so glad. I’ve never been able to build a meal plan in my life. Because I’m so bad at giving people practical advice.

But Noelle is amazing at it. So she, we, she built these bread and butter lover meal plans that help people experiment with whether eating more carbs or more fat is best for them. And I know that most people in the health and fitness space right now are really, really into fat. But also; if you're somebody for whom that isn’t working spectacularly, let’s unpack it and experiment with other options.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m kind of laughing, because this is exactly how Liz and I are. Down to what’s better for us nutritionally, as well as personality wise. I’m not sure Liz would put an equation in a book, but she would talk about a lot of important things, and I would be like; Liz. Can we just tell them what to eat? {laughs}

Noelle Tarr: {laughs}

Stefani Ruper: {laughs} Exactly how it goes!

Diane Sanfilippo: Because at the end of the day; of course, we need to answer all the questions of why, and the background and all of that. And we will always do that, right? But I’m like. We just need to tell people what to eat, first of all. And then we can unpack it.

23.39

Diane Sanfilippo: So, tell me more about what’s in this book. Because now I know, and our listeners know, there are meal plans. And you have a couple of different approaches to the way that you're sharing information. But what’s the overall gist of; what was your point of view. “We want to tell people this. Here’s what we’re putting together.” Who is this book really for?

Noelle Tarr: I think one of the things that we really wanted to do was make a book that is both good for people who are experienced in nutrition, but also like the beginners. Because I think that that’s a broader market that we really want to reach. Which is, get people into a healthy lifestyle. But get them early on in the process, so they don’t go through a lot of the pitfalls that most people do. Which is this; just mindset issues. The wagon mentality. Trying to stay on the wagon. And really kind of give them a sustainable plan. And show them that there is no one way you need to eat to be healthy. There is a way to eat that is sustainable, and it may fluctuate throughout your life, and that’s ok.

Stef had a really brilliant idea of targeting to reach minimums when it comes to macronutrient ratios. So instead of setting limits, and setting caloric limits, and saying you can only eat 1600 calories a day, or whatever. Which a lot of diets, of course, say. Or saying, “you can’t eat any of these foods. And then go about your life, and enjoy that.”

It’s more about meeting your minimums, and then having the flexibility to say; “Do I want to eat more carbohydrate or do I want to eat more fat. And what do I feel best doing?” Because there are people who do a lot better when they eat more fat. And there are people who do a lot better when they eat more carbohydrate. So we talk about that. We talk about physiologic conditions which might be conducive to a high-fat diet, or might be conducive to a higher carbohydrate diet.

For example; if you're doing a ton of high intensity interval training. Or you're pregnant or breastfeeding. Or you're having fertility issues, or dealing with amenorrhea. We go through a lot of that stuff to give people guidelines. But ultimately it’s up to you to decide. Do you want to eat more carbohydrate or do you want to eat more fat? And you’ve got to experiment and figure out what works for you.

And we do talk about food quality, because it’s a huge thing. And we also talk about potential problematic foods, being foods that tend to cause the most issues for people. And that’s why we had so much back and forth about the bread lover plan, and the butter lover plan. Because I really don’t eat that much bread, or butter, because gluten and dairy doesn’t work all that well for me. So it was like; why are we putting this in the book when there isn’t that? But now I get it, and it’s cute and it’s fun.

We do talk about these foods, which of course, is gluten and dairy and refined sugars and vegetable oils and how they can impact your life. And then, of course, we have recipes and fitness stuff to go along with it. But ultimately, that’s the goal. To provide people with tools that they can pursue creating a diet around their life that works for their life that is sustainable. And one of the things that I love that Stefani says is; “Do you actually enjoy this? Do you enjoy eating this way? Are you happy doing this?” And we do factor in mental and emotional health. We know that that has to go hand in hand with your physical health. Because it does impact your physical health. Do you enjoy what you're eating? That’s a big thing.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s huge. And I think it’s so important to be women who get behind actually sharing that message of saying, if something you keep trying over and over again for a week, two weeks, whatever, is something you actually don’t even like; can we stop with that? I really, I actually enjoy trying different things. And I enjoy the challenge of finding ways to cook that goes along with different ways of eating. And then seeing how I feel as a result, and then observing those benefits, one way or the other.

And I am someone who generally, I enjoy eating bread. Because obviously, in reality, everybody likes bread. We’ll just put it out there. Pretty much everybody likes bread. But what I start to not like is when I go to the eating butter side; which, to your point, Noelle, I don’t eat butter either. But high fat, I actually feel a lot better. And then over time, I don’t care as much about the bread.

And I feel like it kind of goes on both sides. Once you get a few weeks into something. Because the first week or two weeks, you can’t really tell what you like, because you don’t necessarily like that the rules have changed, maybe. {laughs} It’s like, I think that’s the time when your body is adjusting, and that might be a little bit hard.

28…45

Diane Sanfilippo: Do you guys talk about that? How long to really give it an honest go at one direction or another before you know? Because we all know. Right? The first week of changing your nutrition, either direction, it’s usually not that comfortable. Either you're hungry more often, possibly, or you're getting the carb flu, or whatever it is when you kick the carbs out. So what do you guys say about that? That adjustment period, and how long you want people to really give it a go for. Do you want me to call a name?

Noelle Tarr: No. The way we work is typically Stefani answers first; so I’m trying to see if she is going to answer first. But I’m a talker, so I’ll take it. {laughs}

I’ll let you go next Stefani.

Stefani Ruper: Ok.

Noelle Tarr: I think that; in the book, we have a four-week plan. And that’s kind of what we think is a really good number for people to be able to see if something is working for them. I do think; we did some research, and found that it does take between three and four weeks for your body to really adjust to a change. Especially when we’re talking about removing foods to figure out if they are causing potentially negative symptoms, associated with certain diseases, or autoimmune conditions, or just a reduction in inflammation in general. So I do think that it does take at least three to four weeks, and that is why we have the four-week plan. You’ve got to remove the foods for at least four weeks before you reintroduce them.

And I think; I get this question about fitness a lot, too, Diane. Which is, “How long do I need to try something before I really decide if I like it or not.” Because I think one of the things people experience a lot is like; “I don’t really like doing anything. I don’t like spinning. I don’t like lifting weights.” Or whatever. And there are a lot of different things you can do for fitness.

For me, I always tell people to give it at least four to six weeks in the fitness arena. Because sometimes you just don’t like something because you're not used to it. And you're not really good at it. And nobody is really great at anything the first few weeks that they try it.

With CrossFit, for example, there are so many different movements. It’s a lot of technical stuff. And it took me a while. I spent many, many weeks feeling inadequate and like I hated it. And half dreading going in. But then once I started to adapt, and understand what I was doing, I really did enjoy it. So I don’t know if you have anything else to add, Stef.

Stefani Ruper: Yeah, so in our book, we have a 4 x 4. Which is not a typical elimination phase, where you take out things like grains, and dairy, and refined vegetable oils, and sugar. And that’s four weeks, and even at the end of that, sometimes we say, “In these circumstances, you're going to want to do it again. Or extend it.” Typically we have people then; we walk them through a reintroduction, and they figure out which foods work best for them in particular ways. In very specific ways; different foods to test at different times.

It’s pretty much the same; it’s very similar with macronutrients. Although I think it’s a little bit more flexible. Because when you're talking about eliminating foods, and learning which ones are causing, sometimes really problematic symptoms, you want to be as good. I don’t want to say good. What’s the word I want to say?

Diane Sanfilippo: Methodical?

Stefani Ruper: Yeah. I mean, you want to be methodical. You want to be sure that the experiment that you're conducting is going to work. Anyway, when you're playing with carbs and fat, it’s like; you want to give it a few weeks. But you can also, after that amount of time, you can tweak it in really gentle ways. You don’t have to be really extreme about anything. You can just sort of go with what your body is feeling. What you're feeling emotionally. But I think you are right; especially, I know you specialize so much in helping people sort of overcome what we might call carb addiction and what have you. And yeah, carb flu is a real thing. But know that, after that period, just sort of feel it out. It’s not going to be the end of the world, wherever you decide to test.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes. I think your point; Noelle, your point about kind of being a beginning, I think that’s really important for everyone to remember. When you're trying anything that’s new, it’s a little uncomfortable just because you're a beginning. And I think a lot of people kind of give up before they’ve given it a shot, just because they are a beginner. And it’s hard. It’s hard to learn how to shop differently or cook differently. And we all know that that is hard. It’s definitely a challenge. But I think that having a growth mindset, and open mind to trying new things, and getting to a place where,

I’m sure you guys talk about this a lot on your show. Whereas you mentioned, also in the intro as to why you wanted to write this book. It’s not just about; everyone losing body fat and looking a certain way. Don’t we just want to feel a little more balanced, and sane when we’re eating whatever it is that we’re eating. Whether it’s higher carb, lower carb, whatever it is. We want that to feel good for us.

So in order to have the right mindset around it; dropping some of the expectation of how we should be able to do it so quickly. Or what it should look like. I think that really helps. And I think giving people permission to be a little bit more fluid, to your point, Stef, about the metabolic fluidity that exists versus perhaps allergen or foods that we’re intolerant to. We don’t always have as much fluidity around that. Where as you can eat higher carb or lower carb. And people get really strung out on the idea of eating carbs while you're mostly not. It’s like; well, actually your body can handle that ok when it’s pretty healthy. But if you're allergic to something, you should probably avoid that. And it’s not the same thing. So I think that’s kind of a good point to remember, too.

Stefani Ruper: Yeah. And I do think there are a lot; once you get the idea that a specific kind of way of eating is going to be good for you, it’s very easy to then feel like you might be allergic. To feel like having carbs, the world is going to end. It’s not. And even if you decide to try for a few weeks, it can be a totally worthwhile experiment. Because you will learn; you know what, maybe this is actually good for me. Or be like; ok, yeah, I’ve decided that sticking to something that’s lower carb, or lower fat, is actually really good for me.

This is why; I know telling people “I want you to perform an experiment and learn what’s best for you” is a little bit less fun, or easy than hearing, “Here. Take corn and bread out of your diet and you're going to be fine.” Right? And all of your problems are going to go away. But this is really like the most effective and sustainable way to be healthy forever. To be heathy for a long time. Because you learn your body, and you learn how to work with your body. And then you can just always do your best to figure out what’s for you.

Diane Sanfilippo: I love that. And you know what’s funny; Liz and I were talking about something. Offline, not on the podcast. But we’ve been talking about personality types a lot lately, just in our personal chats. And it’s funny.

Stefani Ruper: It sounded like there was a lot of weight there.

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, we’re just good friends, so we get to talk about… and I’ve been waiting for her to want to talk about that stuff for like years. Because I’m so into it.

Noelle Tarr: Call me, Diane. Call me. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, I will. I’ll text you. Because I talk to Cassy about it. I’m obsessed with it. But what it’s reminding me of is kind of this idea that when it comes to nutrition, what you're saying Stef. It’s this idea of getting to know yourself. And that’s difficult for people because it would be easier for everyone; and it’s much sexier, and it sells much better, for people to say “here’s the thing that works for everyone.” And that sells way better than, “Sorry to say you're going to have to figure out what works for you independently. Here are some general guidelines.” Let’s not eat crap, and hydrogenated oils and seed oils, and high fructose corn syrup.

That being said; there is so much gray area. Because even though we all have this underlying biochemistry, there’s nuances to all of it. And it’s almost like this nutritional personality, in a way, where we have to know ourselves so that we can then interact with food around us in a way that feels sane and balanced. So I think it’s an interesting idea, and I love that we can encourage people to try something. Try it on; if it doesn’t work for you, there’s nothing wrong with you. It’s just about finding something that does work for you. And doesn’t make you feel crazy.

I think, Noelle, you were talking about this earlier. Maybe, Stef, was it you? This is psychological versus physical health thing. Stef, you were saying that. If it makes you crazy, you're a month into something and you just feel like you're fighting yourself the whole time, that’s probably not for you. {laughs}

Noelle Tarr: It’s probably not for you.

Stefani Ruper: So what we do with Coconuts and Kettlebells is we give you as much guideline and as much solution as we possibly can. We give you everything; all of the tools for figuring out what’s good for you. And then we say, ok we’re holding your hands. But you do have to walk this path. But we try to make it fun, and there’s puppy dogs and candy and stuff. I mean, not candy.

Noelle Tarr: Figuratively speaking!

39.02

Diane Sanfilippo: There’s definitely not candy. Ok, so I have indulged myself for long enough with asking you guys questions. I want to get some of the questions that our listeners have for you. Because it sounds like, from this first one, she’s a crossover listener. Ruth Can Read on Instagram has a fun question to start out. She said, “You all are my four favorite podcast ladies in the whole world.” I think she thought that maybe Liz would also be recording; but I find that one interviewer is helpful for me. Anyway, she says, “My question is what is your absolute favorite way to move your body? If energy levels/time/kiddos/location were not an issue, how would you choose to exercise? Also, what kind of exercise would you love to try but haven’t been able to yet.” Noelle, how about you go first?

Noelle Tarr: Those were a lot of things. Favorite ways is obviously walking.

Diane Sanfilippo: But if it weren’t all the scenarios. What’s your favorite, favorite, favorite?

Noelle Tarr: That’s super interesting. And honestly, it would likely be… I used to live in Annapolis, Maryland. And I loved working out with people. I’m a people person. And it’s been a struggle being a business owner and then being a mom, because I’ve been at home a lot. And we just moved, and I don’t know many people. But I loved when we lived in Annapolis, I loved working out with this group of people at the gym. It was similar to CrossFit. But I love that. I love higher intensity stuff.

I want it to be sort, and I want to get it done, and I want to leave. {laughs} I’m so done.

Diane Sanfilippo: And you want there to be other people doing it with you.

Noelle Tarr: {laughs} And I want to laugh and talk with other people. The thing that I have not tried yet. I don’t know exactly what it’s called. I think it’s called soul cycle. But it’s the club and a spin. I think that sounds so much fun. I see some videos of it on Facebook; and I’m like, yes! That combines my love for EDM music and spinning.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Noelle Tarr: That seems so cool. But I haven’t done it yet.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. What about you Stef?

Stefani Ruper: Well my favorite thing to do is dancing, and I think everybody knows that. Is there some way of moving my body that I haven’t tried that I want to? I really like dancing, so I’m not sure I could answer that. Maybe dancing in space. You said no limitations, right?

Diane Sanfilippo: Like anti-gravity?

Stefani Ruper: Yeah! Like anti-gravity dancing. That could be fun. But yeah, dancing is variable. You can do it in so many different ways. I just met a woman who was wonderful, and she was trained to do lion dancing. Which is, in China, where you have the huge lion costume. And she was the butt. And you have to learn these specific motions to make the lion dance. And that’s one options among so many different ways of dancing. And so, I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of it because of its diversity.

Diane Sanfilippo: That is fascinating; the butt of the lion. I could see where that would take a lot of technique. Am I supposed to answer that too?

Noelle Tarr: Yes.

Stefani Ruper: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. I really do love lifting weights. I love the feeling in my muscles when I’m lifting weights. And there’s just certain types. I love to straight leg deadlift. There are just certain types of lifts that I really like. They feel easy; like a straight leg deadlift feels easy, but a squat feels like a lot of work. So I like to lift weights, but I like to do the types of things that are not; I don’t know, mechanically as difficult.

I really, really liked when I was training on trapeze. Because it was very challenging to learn new skills, and try and move my body around an apparatus in a way that required a ton of strength and balance. But it required more mental capacity at the time than I had. I was too stressed out to do it. And I remember I fell off the trapeze once, and that was like; ok. I didn’t fall-fall, I just kind of fell out of the thing I was trying to do. And I was like; my head is not in this game right now.

Anyway. The thing that I would love to try and I haven’t yet; I don’t know. I think I would love to try Pilates on the machine thing. The reformer Pilates. Because that seems like a mellow but hard workout. And I don’t like to have to move that fast. So while I have enjoyed spin class, the not moving fast part of that is I get to sit down, you know?

Noelle Tarr: {laughs} Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m like; exercise where I can sit down? That sounds good. So anyway. But they’ve heard enough about spin class on this show.

43.51

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. So, there are some questions about muscle soreness and rest days. So diving more into the fitness side of things. So I think we’re going to talk about that for the next little bit here. But this one is from Julie. Rest days. “I CrossFit six times a week for pretty much the last two years. Should I be taking more than one rest day? There are times I’m absolutely beat when I get to the gym. I workout after work. But then I do the workouts and immediately feel better.” That’s a good one.

Noelle Tarr: Yes.

Stefani Ruper: That is a good one. Why don’t you go ahead?

Noelle Tarr: Yes, you should be taking more rest days!

Diane Sanfilippo: She’s chomping at the bit!

Noelle Tarr: {laughing} Yeah. Short answer; yes. Long answer, definitely yes.

Stefani Ruper: {laughs}

Noelle Tarr: I think one of the ways that you can tell if you need to be taking more rest days is if you do feel beat up when you go into the gym. And especially if it compromises your form. And your mental/emotional health. If you're just kind of going in and you feel sluggish and you're tired; first of all, I want to know why. Why do you feel like you need to go in when you are tired, and you do feel beat up, and it doesn’t feel that enjoyable?

Because workouts are stress. They are stress. And in the presence of stress, whether they be from exercise or other things in your life, it is only going to add more stress to your life. So I am of the mindset now, in my older age, that I think rest is really the ticket to long-term health. Of course, we need to expose our body to good stress like exercise. But, if you are not giving yourself the appropriate amount of rest; rest is where you become stronger. Rest is where you make your gains. Working out is in fact tearing down and breaking down your muscles.

So if you're going into the gym, and you're feeling overly fatigued. The soreness that you feel is compromising your form. You're not recovering from your workouts very well. Your hunger; maybe you're not feeling as hungry. That’s a sign that you're working out too much. And six days a week is a lot of working out. Not only time applied; but just a lot of energy. Emotional, mental, and physical energy.

So I would say yes. I don’t know if there was another part to that question. But if you start to incorporate a few more rest days, I bet you will feel better in your workouts, and you’ll see that you’ll make more gains. You’ll be making more progress when you're applying yourself in the gym.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. For sure. And we’ve definitely talked about this on the show. Sometimes, people want to go into a CrossFit gym six days because it’s their happy place, and I think that’s a great opportunity to have a conversation with your coach around what you need to do. I don’t think there’s any reason somebody needs to do CrossFit more than 5 days a week. I think that’s a lot. And it’s just depending on the stress that’s going on in your life otherwise.

Four days should be plenty of CrossFit. But that fifth day could be a lighter workout, and the sixth day, just recovery, rolling. You're there for the comradery, cheer people on. Check your ego at the door, and try to get some recovery. I think that’s so important. And that’s kind of a practical way to approach it. If you just want to show up. Especially if you have an unlimited membership. You don’t want to show up for a class that maybe you pay for and not get to work out. So I get that.

And I understand what that’s like, too. Because when you just want to show up because it’s your happy place, it’s hard to not then do what’s on the board. Oh, I love power cleans! I want to do the workout! Yeah. That’s good advice.

47.35

Diane Sanfilippo: So, this next one is also kind of piggybacking from Witchy Cats on Instagram. “Burning question; pun intended. What’s normal in terms of delayed onset muscle soreness. Basically, how do you know when you’ve detrimentally pushed yourself too hard, versus beneficially ripping that muscle, tearing the muscle that will build up stronger?”

Noelle Tarr: Yeah, so just kind of piggy backing on what my answer before was. Because I know people want concrete answers and advice. And one of the things I always try to tell people is; if you cannot perform a squat properly, and you can’t perform a pushup properly because you are so sore. {laughs} I think we’ve all had that feeling where we workout really hard and we can’t sit down on the toilet, you know. That’s a good sign that you should not be working out {laughs}.

Because your priority number one is to make sure you have proper form when you're doing anything. Especially with weights. Especially in the gym. And it’s likely that you are feeling this amount of soreness because you were doing some sort of high intensity training; whether that be with weights and/or sprint training, cardio efforts.

So, you really need to make sure that you are able to perform the movements properly. If you go into the gym, and you feel just a little tight, and you can roll out, and warm up, and all of that dissipates, it’s ok to workout. And you applied the appropriate amount of stress to your body. If you have something that lingers that really does compromise your form and your ability to walk up the steps and/or sit on the toilet, for a couple of days, that’s a good sign that you exposed yourself to too much too fast. Whether that be the amount of working out that you did in a single session, and/or you did too many days in a row.

49.27

Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. Ok, so this one is from Amelia. And this is kind of a body fat, yoyo dieting question. “There’s so much conflicting advice, opinions, and self-proclaimed experts in health and wellness these days. Specifically, surrounding topics of body fat percentage, health at any size, and permanently eliminating the on-again, off-again wagon mentality. It’s a hot topic right now; even more so than fat versus carbs. What are your thoughts on those topics? Specifically body fat percentage for men and women? How high of a percentage becomes a health issue and your health is jeopardized, versus not?”

And then there’s additional questions from there. But just what’s your take on that? I do think that’s an interesting question. Because in light of body positivity, I will speak for all of us when I think we’re all in that place where we don’t want to shame anyone for whatever their body is looking like in a moment. I think the older we all get, we see when we judge other people, we’re doing it to ourselves, we’re doing it to them, the whole thing. But at what point do we see this delineation between actually this is a health concern. And while we can positive, we can also be looking for some health improvement. What do you guys think about that?

Stefani Ruper: Yeah. I’ve come under fire from some of my community, in part because I have a program for weight loss. And I’ve had to defend myself. But I do feel very strongly that weight loss is an ok goal, so long as you undertake it secondarily to health. And I mean, both your mental and your physical health. I think weight loss is something that can be something that’s healthy. And can be something that you choose without having to be blamed for not having been good enough for loving yourself.

And it really all depends on, again, what’s best for you. I do believe that it is possible to be healthy; however we’re defining that. But generally healthy at higher body fat percentages that 15. Right? And 20. And having a body mass index or whatever; I know those are complicated measures. But I think it’s ok to be in the “overweight” category, and still be a healthy human.

Now, it is also quite possible, to be a very lean human and be very unhealthy. Right? So I think that we really do need to disassociate health and weight in our culture. We can see that there are correlations. And we can see that yes, having excess body fat can be a stress on the body. Both on your joints, and also in terms of inflammatory molecules. But categorizing them in a black and white way is not good for anybody. There are certain circumstances in which having more body fat is better for your health.

If you're at a more mature age. If you're struggling with cancer; specific types of cancer. Really, diseases that your body has a hard time fighting; sometimes having more body fat is really good for you because it gives you more energy to fight and to help your body feel fed while it’s undergoing such hard processes. So that’s totally cool. That’s something we need to just sort of be aware of to help us remove the demonizing stuff that we do to body fatness.

But I do also think that yes, there are many instances in which losing weight. Especially if you're at a significantly higher body fat percentage. Can be good for you. And when we meet people on the street, and you might want to judge them because they’re much higher or lower weight than you. You have no idea what they have been eating. I know many people who are heavier, and they eat nothing but salads. But then they eat a piece of cake, and everybody judges them. But there’s a leaner person next to them who has had a whole tray of desserts, and nobody cares because they’re lean. I don’t think we should be judging people for whatever choices they make around food.

But I think we need to be aware, again, that you can’t know. And maybe somebody who is “overweight” and eating lots of salads is actually healthier than somebody who is lean and eating nothing but pizza. But yes, I also do know that there is an elevated health concern when you're at a higher weight. And I do think that it’s important. I think it’s not the only thing, and it’s not as important as we make it out to be in our society.

Noelle Tarr: I want to add; I think weight and where we’ve come with all of this. I think your weight is actually more a symptom or a side effect of a disease state. Whereas our culture tends to look at it as; if you're overweight, that’s causing your disease. I think if we flip the script there, and we say, “There’s a disease state happening which is causing this weight.” Not to say that is the case for everything. But when we look at it through that lens, we get a little bit.

Like we’re so focused on weight so much so that we just define health one specific way, and it often looks like a fitness professional with a six-pack. And we’ve wrongly assumed that weight loss always equals health. And I think all three of us know that you can lose weight and be much more unhealthy. And you can do things to lose weight and make your body less healthy doing that. And we’ve all been there.

So, when we kind of remove weight from the equation, and we talk about pursuing health, I think weight often does balance out. So for some people, I wish that we had one answer of, “When you're this body fat percentage, you are unhealthy.” But we don’t have that. Because we don’t know where people’s starting point are, for one. If someone was 400 pounds and now 200, of course they’re more healthy and they may have physiological health. So really the only way to tell, to me, is numbers in blood work and testing done with your doctor.

Diane Sanfilippo: And one of the questions that was kind of in here in her follow-up was like; what are some measurements. And to your point; the blood work. What your blood work is showing. She was asking would visceral fat be a good measurement. I absolutely think visceral fat is a great measurement. And that’s our fat around our organs. Because that actually tells you how well your body is protecting vital functions, versus just kind of adding some junk in the trunk. {laughs} A little extra around your hips or your butt is not an unhealthy thing, necessarily. I mean, there are lots of implications, hormonally, for tons of excess body fat. Which that’s a whole other conversation.

But I think what you guys are kind of hitting on, also, is the fact that a lot of people in meeting and looking at someone else. And also to your point, Noelle, about the older we get the less we do this. Because the longer we live, the more we see that we don’t know anybody’s life. I think there’s a snap judgement about the types of choices that a person must be making in their life based on how they look. And I think it’s a really unfair thing to do.

And I think the more we go through ups and downs, whether it’s with our body fat percentage and our weight. Or just happiness or unhappiness. Or appearing one way and being commended for it, and not feeling good. Which I was in that place many years ago. I was shredded but exhausted. And I think it’s tricky. It’s tricky because we commend people for, as you said, having the six-pack or looking a certain way. And unfortunately, we might be feeding into a negative health state for that person when we commend that look, versus just finding a way to talk about health.

I think the aesthetic nature of what’s happening in society; more and more being visually focused. With Instagram being so popular. It’s like, everything is about a picture. And inevitably, people who show more skin get more likes. And traction. And it’s a tricky situation, you know?

Anyway, I’m just on a tangent there. But I think it’s important that we all know that those aesthetic goals; ok. If you want to have them, have them. There’s no shame in that. And there’s also a lot of value to recognizing that we need to value each other for things aside for the amount of fat on our body.

Noelle Tarr: Yeah. Your worth is not your weight. Which is all we’ve been told our entire lives. Or your physical features. Or your leanness. There’s a lot more to you than that. And you can be healthy at a variety of weights. And you can be strong and fit at a variety of weights.

Diane Sanfilippo: And think about how much time; men and women, but I’ll say especially women, as we are on the show. Think about how much time women waste on this.

Noelle Tarr: Ugh!

Diane Sanfilippo: And they’re not contributing to society in other ways. And I think that is hopefully a point that we can all kind of drive home. Let’s find a healthy balance with real food, and whichever way of eating is going to work for you. But let’s not allow this ongoing pursuit of perfect health and a body shape that looks a certain way get in the way of the contributions that we’re all here to make to the world in different ways. I don’t know, I’m just on a whole other tangent now.

Stefani Ruper: Yeah, but the best kind of tangent.

Diane Sanfilippo: That was a good one, right?

Noelle Tarr: Stef talks about that a lot. How can I eat in a way that allows me to …?

Diane Sanfilippo: Not think about how I eat so much? {laughs}

Noelle Tarr: Yeah, not think about how I eat so much, and do more good in the world. How can I eat in a way that sustains me so that I can do good things and be a good human?

Stefani Ruper: I think we need to acknowledge the difference between being healthy for the sake of having a good life, being fit for the sake of having a good life, and being healthy and/or fit perusing that for the sake of trying to chase away your mortality. Or trying to win people’s approval. Or trying to prove something to yourself. These are such different categories. And I don’t want to spend my life in the gym arbitrarily. I want the things that I do for my health to be things that then serve me, and serve the world in another way.

My role models are people like Malala. Who lives down the street from me now, by the way. A little tidbit, but yeah. She’s got body guards. Anyway. You know what I mean? These are my role models. People who are focused on being able to be a positive presence in the world. And I don’t want to shrivel into hating myself.

And when we get to the end of our lives, we’re spending a lot of time talking about getting older. When we get to 80, are we going to look back and be like, man I wish I’d starved myself more? What.

Diane Sanfilippo: No. I wish that I had ate that thing. {laughs}

Stefani Ruper: I wish I had ate that thing.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I mean, we need to be healthy to show up to do those things. And there’s a line between being a generally healthy person, and taking this pursuit of some level of health to some impractical place. And useless endeavor. That’s just self-fulfilling. And actually, I think to your point a bit, Stef, I think it also is a distraction from more important and bigger work. And sometimes that’s inner work; back to the personality thing. Sometimes it’s work on ourselves that has nothing to do with food. But food is such an easy lever to pull. And it’s something we all want to focus on. And so anyway.

Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants (including me; Liz, I’m an NTP), emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal.

The NTA’s nutritional therapy practitioner program and new fully online nutritional therapy consultant program empower graduates with the education and skills needed to launch a successful, fulfilling career in holistic nutrition. To learn lots more about the NTA’s nutritional therapy programs, check out their free Nutritional Therapy 101 course as well, go to http://www.NutritionalTherapy.com. There are workshops in the US, Canada, and Australia, so chances are you’ll be able to find a venue that works for you.

1.03.08

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. So, one more question here. There are others, but we’ll have to do this again another time, because it’s getting late over there, I know. It’s a late one.

Stefani Ruper: Don’t worry!

Diane Sanfilippo: There’s a question about CrossFit and intermittent fasting which I think would be interesting to hear your thoughts on. So, Keeping in Motion on Instagram, “Would love to hear their thoughts on CrossFit while intermittent fasting. I usually CrossFit in the mornings 4 to 5 days a week. I work hard, but I’m not a competitor or anything. I have no qualms about scaling if my body needs it. To piggy back on this; I would also love to hear more about crossfitting as a woman, timing your carbs around it, workouts when eating keto.”

Oh, this is a long question. We don’t have to unpack all of this. Anything else you’d like to share. So let’s just focus on intermittent fasting for now. And how that relates back to crossfitting or just exercising in general.

Stefani Ruper: The question I would want to ask is why? You know, what is your purpose here? Are you trying to lose weight? Are you trying to improve performance? Are you trying to help with your energy? What is your goal? Who or what are you serving right now? Because what you do, I think totally depends on those things. And I will say that probably in the service of all of them, combining CrossFit and intermittent fasting is probably not the best idea.

It depends on which way in which you do your intermittent fasting and maybe you find a way that works well for you. But CrossFit is highly demanding. And it does really get your stress hormones going. And again, in short bursts, this can be really good. But also if you are going long periods of time without eating, and you feel hungry, especially if you're feeling hungry during those times, this is also a stressful moment for your body. And its taking calories. And it’s telling your body that you have a caloric demand, and you're not meeting it.

So when you add these two things together, you really put a pretty significant burden on your body about it’s hormone production. Will I produce hormones, or will I continue to panic about not getting enough energy? And some women’s bodies can handle that. I won’t like.

There’s a post on my blog called Shattering the Myth for Fasting for Women. And if you want to go read it, you can Google that. There are hundreds of comments on the post. Most of the people on there were like; wow, this really affirms my experience with fasting. It’s been really extreme or bad for me in XYZ ways. But there are also tons of people there saying, “no. You're wrong. Fasting works great for me.” And I absolutely see that they’re totally right. And my advice for that always, always, always is; ok. Try it. But watch out for symptoms. Watch out for energy changing. For your periods. For your skin quality. For anything hormonal at all. Pay very close attention. And make sure you watch over the long term. Because these affects can build up.

So first I would interrogate why you want to do it. And if you still conclude that it’s worthwhile for whatever reason, then just be careful. Pay attention. And make sure that you are continuing to serve your body, no matter what you do.

Noelle Tarr: Yeah, I would just say the people who are doing CrossFit are probably not the people that are needing to be doing the intermittent fasting. This is just going to be me building up on what Stefani says. But we do have a little bit of a bone to pick with the whole intermittent fasting and CrossFit culture. Because I guess I in particular, I struggled with it. I went through a phase of doing CrossFit and trying the fasting. And it really did heighten a lot of my anxieties. And it heightened a lot of my struggles around food.

We’ve looked at a lot of the research on intermittent fasting. And I don’t think there’s been enough done with women; specifically women who are already fit and lean. So that’s why I say, if you're doing CrossFit and you're really in the gym a lot, and you are metabolically healthy, women’s bodies are different. So even though that might work for a lot of men. And I have known a lot of men who they CrossFit and they intermittent fast and it worked great. It might work different if you're a woman. And especially if you're working at a higher level.

And like Stefani said; it’s another stressor. And when we get one too many stressors, your physiology can change. You can have chronic cortisol, and that just kind of spirals into many other things. So absolutely; try it and see if it works for you. But I would really recommend first and foremost making sure that you are eating enough. And you eat a lot; you eat a good meal after your workout. So yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. You guys, that was really fun. I’m so glad that we had a chance to sit down and chat all about what you guys are doing over on your show. I know you talk about the same types of topics that we do; just kind of health from all different angles, and really trying to give women a very well-rounded, balanced approach to everything. Non-dogmatic; and what I’m calling a soft landing, but with a firm point of view. {laughs}

Coconuts and Kettlebells, the book releases on August 7th. Right? That is the book birthday that I had for Practical Paleo, so I’ll never forget that day. So yay! It’s a good day. August 7th, the book is officially released. And it will be for sale I’m sure everywhere. You can grab it on Amazon and wherever books are sold. And where can we find out more about both of you guys.

Noelle Tarr: For me, just go to CoconutsandKettlebells.com. That’s about it. And then on Instagram at Coconuts and Kettlebells. {laughs}

Stefani Ruper: When we end our podcast, Noelle always has like; for more from Stefani, so I’m just used to her doing the recap on Stefani. For more from Stefani. I’m at PaleoforWomen.com. And we do the Well-fed Women podcast.

Diane Sanfilippo: And the Well-fed Women podcast, you guys have new episodes every week. What days do they release?

Noelle Tarr: Tuesday.

Stefani Ruper: Tuesday.

Diane Sanfilippo: Tuesday, so there you go. If you're looking to fill your Tuesday listening, while you're waiting for new BB podcast, I think that’s a perfect way to do it. I think you guys will love the show. It’s so great chatting with you guys.

Noelle Tarr: Thank you so much.

Stefani Ruper: You too.

Diane Sanfilippo: Thank you so much to my guests, Noelle and Stef. You can find both of them every single week on the Well-fed Women podcast. I mentioned their Instagram accounts earlier in the show; we’ll link to them in our show notes. And that’s it for this week. You can find me at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Don’t forget to join my email list for free goodies and updates you don’t find anywhere else on our websites or even on the podcast. While you’re on the internet, please leave us an iTunes review. We’ll see you next week.

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