Balanced Bites Podcast

Balanced Bites Podcast: Episode #25, Listener Questions, with Guest Diana Rodgers

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Balanced Bites Podcast

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1. Bulimia, emotional eating, cravings & Paleo.
2. Is coconut Paleo’s peanut? Adding back in carbs after The 21-Day Sugar Detox & general carb intake ideas for leaning out/CrossFit Games training.
3. Child with severe elimination issues.

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LIZ WOLFE: Nuh-uh. Already?


LIZ WOLFE: Wow, so you counted down and everything?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yup. It happened.


DIANE SANFILIPPO: And I was trying to bring you on and couldn’t find…like the icons aren’t showing up at all, so oh, that will be fun. [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] All right, so let’s just get started, I guess. Oh my gosh, I just totally sounded like Zoey Deschanel from the New Girl.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I get that all the time. Strangers are like, do you know who you sound like? I’m like, yes, yes, I do. Seriously all the time.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]


LIZ WOLFE: And your hair’s super pretty, too.


LIZ WOLFE: Welcome.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I used to have bangs and dark hair, so she was my doppelganger for awhile. [laughs] This is the stuff that people really want to hear, and then we’re going to get into the whole podcast thing, and people will be like, we just want to hear you guys talk. Maybe we should do the real intro…


DIANE SANFILIPPO: and see if we get our buddy on the line here, too. I don’t know what’s going to happen. Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Cool. Okay, so…hey ya’ll, I’m Liz Wolfe, and [laughs] I’m here with Zoey Deschanel of Balanced Bites. Welcome to [laughs] welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast, and we’re at episode 25 which, I don’t know, Diane. I think you and I can probably both agree that 25 is pretty much the age where everything starts to go downhill, so…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Except that you can rent a car, which I don’t know how positive that is, I mean.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Although I rent a car like almost every other weekend these days. [laughs] So I’m pretty glad I can do that. That’s about it.

LIZ WOLFE: Is it really 25? Oh my gosh.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Isn’t that weird? I don’t get it, but yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: So weird. I remember when that was so so far away.


LIZ WOLFE: So far away. But yeah, not me. Okay, so let me just throw in, before I forget, a little reminder about, you know, how the materials and content contained in this podcast are for general health information only, and are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. And most topics are also not appropriate for first date conversations or like when you first meet your future in-laws, that type of thing.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think we’re talking about an important note. It may also not be appropriate dinner conversation unless you’re a bunch of Paleo nerds who can totally like chow down on a steak and also talk about poop. I mean, that totally happens at my dinner table pretty frequently, depending on who I’m dining with. I have no trouble doing that.



LIZ WOLFE: That’s terrible.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. I’m drinking my Bulletproof coffee…

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, tell me about that stuff. What’s that stuff about?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, I think the whole Bulletproof part of it is really mostly that you basically just whip grass-fed butter into your coffee, either in a blender. I was doing it with a hand blender. Unfortunately, I only have salted coffee…salted coffee. Nice. Wow.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Salted butter, so…

LIZ WOLFE: I was going to say, that doesn’t sound right, but whatever.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I know. I mean, it’s…maybe it’s hyping me up or I’m just excited to be on the phone right now with my friend, which is what we do when we’re recording this podcast, but…no. Salted…I have salted, grass-fed butter. It’s the only kind I have right now, so my parents went to yoga, and I was like, can you stop at Whole Foods on the way back. See if they have the unsalted Kerrygold? But yeah, so drinking that. And I put some coconut oil in it, and I put like a half a teaspoon of honey in it this morning because it’s my carb day.

LIZ WOLFE: Oh my gosh.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I’m calling it my carb day, though. Like I’m not going to get into it too much, but I’m currently doing like a cyclic ketogenic thing. I just…I feel better when I kind of cycle in the carbs that I’m eating, and my digestion is fine without, and we can talk about it another day, but basically, it’s carb day for me. So I’m like ooh, a half a teaspoon of raw honey, how exciting! But yeah, I actually really like it. And so the other part of it is that it’s this coffee that supposedly, you know, just the way that it’s like harvested and stored and treated and packaged and all that doesn’t have the same kind of possibility of growing like mold and fungus that a lot of standard coffee might have, so I don’t know. I guess we’re not supposed to get the same side effects that we might get…jittery or weird stomach feelings or just…

LIZ WOLFE: I like feeling jittery.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: something beyond…You know, I don’t mind the little buzz. I mean, I think the caffeine will naturally do that, but I do sometimes get like, just to kind of weird knot in my stomach, so I don’t know. We’ll see what happens.

I’m wondering if we have our friend on the line here, if she can hear us.

LIZ WOLFE: I think we do. I think our special guest who’s hanging out with us…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Are you there? I can’t…something’s going wrong with my switchboard, so I can’t see…


DIANE SANFILIPPO: the icons to…You know what? I’m just going to reload it and hopefully that won’t drop our call.

LIZ WOLFE: Well, I just saw on our Google document right now, so she’s there.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: It’s just, I can’t..I can’t seem to unmute her.

LIZ WOLFE: Diana…?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: There’s something going on with my screen. Let me…I’m going to reload this screen, hopefully…Ah, there we go. There we go. Diana? Can you hear me now?


DIANE SANFILIPPO: Let’s do a little more of our normal shtick intro, and we’ll introduce you here, and kind of talk about why we have you on the show and all that good stuff. But I was having some technical difficulties for a second there. I was afraid to reload this page. I didn’t know if it might drop us out, but it didn’t. So yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. Now we have three people talking, but no one’s going to be able to tell who’s who.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.. Well, oh well. It’s a free podcast. I can’t do it all. [laughs] When you think it’s Zoey Deschanel, that’s Diane. [laughs] Anyway.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, so that’s when you think it’s Diane. When you think it’s Austin Powers, it’s Liz. [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: You had a Paula Deen going there for like one second, and I kind of wanted you to do the whole little disclaimer as Paula Deen. Maybe next time.

LIZ WOLFE: [twang} Oh my Gawd, ya’ll.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Ya’ll. All right, well, let’s do a quick intro on Diana, our guest, and then yeah. Were you going to do that, Liz?

LIZ WOLFE: Welcome to Diana. What are you all about? Tell us about yourself. Pretend we are a dating website.

DIANA RODGERS: What’s that? Bad.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: You’re speed dating right now. What’s your name and what’s your…? No. All right, I’ll tell people who she is.

DIANA RODGERS: I thought you said you were making a dating site. No no. [laughs] Obviously. I am the owner of Radiance Nutritional Therapy. I actually…I went to the Nutritional Therapy Association, the same program that Liz went to. So I’m pretty much, you know, out there doing the Paleo nutritionist thing. I’m a CrossFitter and I’m a nutritional consultant at a few CrossFits in the Boston area here. And I happen to also have a side job. My husband and I live on an organic farm. My husband’s a farmer, and I help a lot here with some events and marketing, and you know, keeping up our website and all that kind of stuff, so…and we’ve got, let’s see, 400 member CSA, a little over 400 members, and a farm stand where we sell all kinds of coconut oil and cod liver oil and beef bones and lots of fermented vegetables, all kinds of Weston A. Price approved/Paleo-friendly foods, and…So we raise sheep, pigs, chickens, and pretty much any vegetable that will grow in Massachusetts.


LIZ WOLFE: So I wanted to hear more about hard that is to do because my vegetable garden last year was literally, literally…my friend came over and goes, is that a grave? Like is that a fresh grave? Like `’cause that’s what it…it looked like a mound of like…I don’t know. It was sad. It was just sad.

Tell me, tell me about growing at that volume and how you do it.

DIANA RODGERS: So that’s really my husband’s gig, more than mine. I’m sort of a cheerleader for the farm. I mean, I definitely, you know, could probably handle a small garden, but he’s really the mastermind of, you know…I mean to have to stage all the different…to make sure you have enough lettuce for 400 members for every single week for a CSA plus a retail operation. That’s a lot of work, so you know, people always ask us in the winter time, you know, what do you do? Do you go on vacation all winter and stuff? And it’s absolutely not because there’s so much planning and matrix and tell sheets involved, just trying to stage it all, and make sure everyone’s happy. And then, you know, taking care of the animals and all that kind of stuff, so it’s definitely a labor of love, and our kids are so lucky to be…we’ve got an 8 year old and a 6 year old, so we’re so psyched to be, you know, raising our kids on this beautiful piece of land here, and really showing them the value of food and having a healthy relationship with food, and also trying to involve the community. So that’s a big part of it, too. Running education programs. We have kids come and then also we train other farmers. We run an apprentice program, so just kind of spreading the word, too, about getting involved in local agriculture.

LIZ WOLFE: Very cool.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Awesome. Well, so the reason why we wanted to bring…and her name is Diana Rodgers. We actually didn’t have you do a full intro, but the reason why I wanted to bring Diana on the show, too, is that the three of us, myself, Liz, and Diana, will all be at PaleoFX in Austin in about a month, and we’re actually doing a discussion that, you know, we’re kind of all in the same boat. We’re all working with clients with a lot of different issues. We all take a sort of Paleo/Weston A Price-ish approach to how we help people, but we think it’s really interesting that a lot of people, and this definitely happens for me and I think it happens for every practitioner on some level, is that we get a really diverse population of people who are coming to us with different problems and issues and questions, and the way that we handle each person is not always the same. It’s not like, here’s a formula of how to get somebody from eating one way to eating another way.

There’s no set standard for how that’s going to work, and you know, the same way when you’re training someone in a gym, every person needs an assessment, and you need to take possibly a different route, but there are, you know, some natural progression that every person needs to go through, but really we need to understand who that person is, where they’re coming from, you know, what their thought process might be, and you know, how to approach things they’re after. So what we’re doing in that talk is, you know, trying to go over for practitioners for the most part, so you know, if you’re coming to PaleoFX, you know, this is something that, you know, it will be valuable for really anyone to check out, but it’s really going to be something that’s most valuable if you’re a coach or practitioner or somebody working with nutrition clients. But I think, yeah, I guess I can kind of let people know what our little sort of summary is of what we’re going to be talking about. Does that sound good to you?

LIZ WOLFE: Do it. Yeah, do it.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Cool, so what we’re going to talk about in our little discussion is, you know, how do we as nutrition practitioners connect with a very diverse population to achieve sort of a buy-in on the whole Ancestral diet and lifestyle. We’re dealing with different personalities, different motivations, educational backgrounds, etc. And we understand that each person has a unique reason for wanting to improve their health. So, you know, whether it’s a suburban housewife or, you know, an urban 20 year old, a competitive athlete or child with food allergies, each case requires a really different approach, and a different willingness on the part of the practitioner to uncover each client’s impetus for change. So how do we dispel common myths about a Paleo diet? You know, do we even say the word Paleo or not? How do we approach that? There’s, you know, a uniform set of principles, but we want to maintain flexibility in approaching the needs of each individual. So you know, one person may be really fat phobic while another is concerned that this whole thing is too expensive or too difficult for them. For others, it’s not the diet that’s holding them back, but other factors like stress or sleep or emotional or psychological issues that really need attention. So what components of an Ancestral Diet are most vital for each client? How do we introduce them without losing their willingness to comply? And answering those questions are really vital to the success of the practitioner. It’ll be a different sort of set of strategies, though there won’t be, you know, a set path for every person.

You know, for each practitioner does need to have some flexibility, and an effective practitioner will successfully encourage behavioral change by debunking myths, preconceptions, and really listening to the story of each client with compassion and speaking specifically to their needs. And it’s more than just telling someone what to do. You know, it’s more than having a list of you know, we go through these sessions and I teach you about these things every time because we need to be very fluid in our approach. So I think it’s really important. I’m really excited to talk about this stuff. You know, we don’t have all the answers, but we have a lot of ideas, and a lot of suggestions. And I tell that to my clients all the time, look I don’t know what will work for you, but I know…I have ideas and I have recommendations, and let’s try this and see how this goes. And every person will respond a little bit differently, so…I’m real excited to you know, get together and talk about this stuff. I think Liz and I address a lot of these issues on the podcast, and I think a lot of our listeners really value that we talk about these things, and especially some of the emotional or psychological issues that people are having, even though we are not, you know, trained professionally in that route.

I think just as people, we all have an innate sensibility to relate to other people and try to show compassion and empathy or sympathy, you know, depending on whatever’s going on with this person, to just relate to them as a human being, and try and help them see things as a little bit differently because at the end of the day, I think we all you know, do get some people who come to us who know what to eat, you know. And we don’t know what to eat and what keeps us from eating exactly what we know to eat all the time. there’s something that keeps us from just everyday choosing quote unquote perfect food because we don’t. We’re not going to do that, but I’m helping people to kind of see what they’re doing and get themselves to a place where they’re feeling happy and calm about things.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, I’m excited about…well, I mean, it’s almost like our little Paleo onramp type of idea. You know?


LIZ WOLFE: Kind of addressing each person individually and…this is Liz, by the way, everyone, in case you’re wondering. I think…I don’t know, just being me personally, probably one of the most fallible people on the planet. I’m in no way perfect in my application of any of these principles. I’ve said that on my blog. But I’ve had to figure out what my own motivations are. And for some people, those can be helpful, and for other people, you have to use a totally different approach. So I don’t know. I think it’ll be cool. I think we’ll learn a lot from those people that come in to attend the panel, I guess, and I’ve learned a lot from you guys. So…and I’ve learned a lot from the questions that come in, you know? I mean, it’s not just this…Chris Kresser talks a lot about how this is not in any way a one size fits all thing. You know? I mean, we do all..we blog, we write, we talk about these things and we kind of put our own personal kind of standard out there, I guess? But it’s so much more complex than that. It’s so much more individual and I think that’s kind of like the beauty of what we do, as well as…I don’t know…the challenge. So I’m super excited. Also super excited to be in Austin on St. Patrick’s Day because that’s going to get weird. Everybody, it’s going to get super weird.


DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think…oh, go ahead. Sorry.

DIANA RODGERS: Oh, no that’s okay. This is Diana. I was just going to say, guys, I just…I made us reservations at a super great place on St. Patrick’s Day to eat, so I’m hoping to get some antelope or bone marrow salad or something like that, so I’m super excited about the restaurant scene.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That sounds great.

DIANA RODGERS: And about our talk, too. I was just going to say, like you know, people come in to me and, you know, some of them want all the kinds of studies and are completely skeptical and they don’t believe me at all. And they think their cholesterol is going to go through the roof and they’re going to have a heart attack in a week. And then other people are just so desperate with such severe, you know, GI symptoms that if I told them to stand on their head and eat coffee grounds, they do it. So you know, it’s just all about like reading the person, listening really carefully to what their motivations are and what their concerns are, and then addressing them,

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I wanted to just throw this out there before we get too far in, and I don’t know. I think it’s really…I think it’s just going to be available within the podcast. I’m not sure that I’ll be able to post this on the website. I have to find out if it’s just for our listeners, or if it’s something that I can put on the post. But we are able to offer the Balanced Bites podcast listeners a discount on admission to PaleoFX, so if you’ve been on the fence and you can get yourself to Austin or you live in the area, if you use the code BALANCEDPFX, you’ll be able to get a ticket for $209 vs. the $299, so that’s pretty significant savings, about 30%. So BALANCED with a D, and PFX is the code, so you guys can check that out if you want to come hear us talk live at the event.

And then just quickly another announcement, and I will put a link to this in the note, is that if you can’t come to PaleoFX, and I’m sure most people will not be able to get there because it is a very, you know, it’s a decent trip from wherever you may be. We have an online opportunity that’s a totally separate endeavor, but a lot of the same people who will be speaking at PaleoFX have been interview by Sean Croxton of Underground Wellness. He’s a friend of mine. Awesome guy, really smart. Interviewing 23 of us about just different topics related to Paleo, Paleo nutrition and you know, trying to get things from all different angles, even from the perspective of like does Paleo even make sense? And you know, skeptics of Paleo, which I think is great. I think it’s really good for us to talk about all these different things. But I’ve got a link for you guys to check that out. You can just go to BB for Balanced Bites, so, and I’ll put a link to that. But you can check out a bunch of stuff for free, and then there’s also a way to pay for like expanded information, and I think, full access to the recordings anytime. I have to read it over again. I should be a little well versed-more well versed on what’s available, but I think that he’s releasing every day, like two or three interviews, and you can listen to them for a 24 hour period, and then after that 24 hour period, the next set goes up. So if you want to listen to previous recordings, then you have to I think pay for whatever the access is. But it’s, you know, at least 23 hours at least of recordings plus transcripts and other…a whole bunch of other freebies and my Practical Paleo e-book is going to be available as a freebie on that, so that thing retails for $34 as it stands. So if you guys are like not sure what to do, I think you get a bunch of freebies with the whole thing, so it should be pretty cool if you’re looking for a lot of information all in one place and if you can’t come out to Austin, you can hear a lot of us talk about a lot of the same topics right there. That’s it for my announcements for the moment.


DIANE SANFILIPPO: That was a lot. Cool.

LIZ WOLFE: So should I ask our first question here?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, sure. So we’re going to…we’re going to do our normal thing, and we’ll have Diana chime in some…ugh, I can’t even talk…in on some questions, if she’s got something to say, and we’ll kind of try and bounce around whatever…whatever stuff we all want to offer up, so…yeah, let’s roll.

LIZ WOLFE: Cool. All right. Question one: “I am having a really hard time sticking to a Paleo diet. I love the way it makes me feel, but I’ve only been able to consistently stick with it for a few days until I succumb to sweet cravings. I am an ICU nurse, work 12 hr shifts, needless to say, my job is stressful. I pack a whole days worth of delicious Paleo meals and frequently find myself binging on the junk at work. Cookies, candy, chocolates, anything sweet. I feel like shit afterwards,” Hoo. I feel like such a badass saying the word shit. Sorry about that guys. “afterwards and vow to never do that again…. but a few days later, I do. I CrossFit 3-4 days a week for a year now and have definitely gotten strong but I feel my diet is holding me back. Both my parents were diabetic and both died young, mom at 48 and dad at 56, both from a stroke. I know I need to get this under control, but I’m having a real hard time.

Important to note that I’ve also suffered from bulimia since I was 19. I am now 34. It comes in waves. The last time I binged and made myself throw up was about 2 weeks ago. It is a struggle to not want to binge and purge, but so far 2 weeks. I’ve eaten a lot of junk though. I am 5 feet tall, 138 pounds and about 23% body fat last time I was measured at my CrossFit gym. I’m not lean, but definitely muscular and strong. I just want to be able to stick to a diet that will nourish me and make me healthy. Western medicine is no help as they advocate small frequent high carbohydrate, grain laden meals. This just makes me crave more junk. Help.”

I’ll just kick that right over to you guys. I think you guys probably have been thinking about this stuff.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, you know I think it’s a touchy subject sometimes when we talk about disordered eating, whether or not there’s a name for it. You know, she’s been struggling with bulimia. You know, a lot of people deal with that or anorexia, and I think there’s a huge spectrum of disordered eating, and I think a lot of us can kind of fall victim to some of those different tendencies for, you know, a lot of different reasons, and as practitioners, this is a really hard one for us because I think we tend to want to shy away from these types of issues, and the reality is, I think, you know. I think we know more about how to deal with different issues than we think we do, even if we don’t specialize in whatever this specific manifestation is. It’s an issue of, you know, it’s obviously a very emotional and psychological issue that’s just manifesting in a food control outcome. And so whether that means restricting food or binging and purging, or it just means that a disordered way of thinking about food, it’s a spectrum. And so, you know, the reason I wanted to take this question is that I think that we do have something to offer in that…you know, I’ve dealt with a lot of these things myself before, though I haven’t been bulimic or anorexic. I think it’s how a lot of these different thought processes just around trying to figure out what it is that’s at the root of the problem that’s causing the food control issues.

So when I work with clients on this stuff, I try to have really frank conversations with them about what’s going on in their life or what had been going on, emotionally, whenever it started because, you know, any time we look at an emotional issue like this, it’s like what was going on in your life at the time. And getting someone to just pinpoint and recognize and understand that hey, you know….Just for example, if it’s been since she was 19, I don’t know this person, I don’t know what she was dealing with. But you know, an example of something someone could be dealing with is, you know, maybe the family, there was a divorce. Or maybe, you know, a very close loved one passed away. Something happened that was very emotional for this person and they felt like they needed some comfort. And this whole back and forth of the way that we handle food outside of just a sort of natural relationship of “we’re hungry, we eat.” I think it happens more often than not that people kind of turn to food, and I think that the sad part is food is such an everyday thing. We need to do it all the time, so it’s very hard to break free from this cycle. So this person obviously hopefully is seeking some sort of psychological counseling, emotional counseling, that stuff has to be in place for dealing with any of these issues because it’s really not about the food at all. Like I kind of, you know…of course, eating a clean Paleo diet will go a very long way to helping emotional and psychological issues with food. 95% of your serotonin is made in your gut. Without proper serotonin levels without proper gut function, we can’t expect to be thinking clearly or have clear emotions. People really often are depressed or have anxiety, and a lot of that stuff clears up when we change our food.

That being said, if you’re constantly going back and forth between, you know, this sort of cleaner approach and binging on not so healthy foods, you’re not really setting yourself up to have that good serotonin production because you just keep switching back and forth between foods that are irritating your digestion and probably getting in the way of that, and that are highly affecting your brain chemistry. We know that gluten and dairy products have an effect on our morphin-like response, so gluteomorphins, casomorphins, you know, if we’re getting those foods in, we don’t know how we could be thinking differently if we weren’t eating them. So sometimes this is where the science and the information is valuable. You know, to let her know this is real. These foods can seriously be interrupting with your ability to think clearly and logically. So recognizing that that’s possibly interfering with your rational thought process, I do think that’s really important to know. it’s like, hey, you know, some of this may be completely affected by your food, so if you could continue to avoid those foods, even if you find a way potentially to enjoy like a grain-free treat. See if that doesn’t get in the way of your brain chemistry.

All of that being said, it’s really an issue of getting down to what’s the root of the problem and how can you have a different conversation with yourself when the urges to eat foods that we know are bad for us or to binge and purge, what’s a different conversation that you can have with yourself? And a lot of this will probably have to be worked on with, you know, with a counselor. But I think that we also need to, on some level, if we dealt with emotional eating problems, that we need to just stop when these things kind of are in front of us, when we’re confronted with these different situations and talk to ourselves in a sense, and say like why do I want to eat this and how am I going to feel after I eat it? Like will I even feel better if this urge something will be resolved by eating that food? And I would say, 99% of the time it’s not. You know, if you can have that moment of pause and have forward thinking about how that food will make you feel emotionally and physically, you know, that can be a way to deal with this issue at the time.

Another really useful technique that I’ve used and I’ve recommended it to other clients. It’s something called Emotional Freedom Technique or EFT, and I think we’ve talked about it on the podcast before, but it is…it’s a really similar approach to what I just mentioned, where you give yourself a moment of pause but you also do the tapping method, where you’re tapping on some different areas with your index finger and your middle finger. You’re tapping on some different like emotional nerve centers around your face and around your clavicle and your hand, and it actually helps you to release some of the emotions that you have connected to the thoughts that you have. So really it’s an issue of a complete mental shift and sometimes there are physical things we can do to change our mental and emotional state, and that tapping is one of them. Dr. Mercola has talked about it a bunch. I know people think he is a quack sometimes, but I really think that the EFT system is very useful for people, whether it’s just giving you that moment of pause and changing your thought process or the physical act of the tapping will actually help you to change your thought process. And I think it’s hard for people to understand how that works until you try it. But also when we just get caught up in a moment and you know, we don’t take the time to just kind of step back and reassess our thought process.

So just another couple of quick notes ’cause I’ve rambled on long enough about this. You know, we talk about this last week I think when we talked about the body composition and the figure competitor that, you know, if she’s…if this woman’s focus on her height, weight, body fat percentage, that stuff really needs to get let go of. You know, just knowing how your clothes fit and just, you know, using a gauge of okay, if my pants are too tight, maybe something’s changed and I didn’t realize what I was doing, you know, eating more than I needed to or whatever was happening. But if you’re dealing with this issue, I would really step away from the scale. I wouldn’t let that number drive any of your thought process. It’s not going to give you any value to how, you know, how well you’re doing as a person and how healthy you are at all. So especially as, you know, as strength training person, I just really want people to get away from that scale. It’s not giving you any sort of value, and I don’t want people to literally like find their value in their weight. That’s a, you know…it’s a really negative cycle to be in, so that’s kind of my thoughts on it. I don’t have any really specific recommendations.

My very last thought is that she might want to pick up a copy of The Mood Cure or The Diet Cure by Julia Ross. I have not had specific experience personally though I am actually going to do some playing around with some amino acids myself, but Julia Ross talks a lot about specific amino acids that may help affect your brain chemistry, so sometimes getting out of this loop or this cycle, you know, a supplemental intervention might help you break out of that cycle. It might really help change your brain chemistry so that what I’m talking about with that stopping and pausing and doing some EFT work is actually a lot easier because you’re getting that support of maybe some amino acids that perhaps you’re not digesting currently from your food. You know, most of the stuff we get in food, but if something’s getting in the way of that, the support supplementally may be really helpful. So I want to see what you guys have to say about that.

LIZ WOLFE: I think…I don’t know. I’ll just say something really super quick. I have not personally struggled with bulimia, but I…it just kind of reminds me of a time, probably about, oh gosh, 6, probably about 6 years ago when I just really was kind of floundering just personally in my life. I was hanging on to a lot of things that just had become kind of beyond my personal ability to deal with. And I did go see somebody, and I remember very well honestly from the time I spent in counseling that I just needed to kind of speak it out to someone, you know. And I did, and she said, the one thing that she said that really I hung on to for a very long time is just..she said anything that I’m holding on to, that I just need to forgive myself that. Just free myself of it. Just forgive and move on. And it seems like a really easy, really kind of simple thing, but I just remember thinking, okay, I’m going to forgive myself every mistake I feel like I’ve made, and all these things that I’ve been in one way or another just hanging on to that have been manifesting themselves differently, you know. Maybe not necessarily in the way you might expect. But just..I would just encourage this person to just to forgive yourself before, you know, before anything even happens. Just forgive yourself that. So maybe I’m super crunchy, but anyway, Diana, what do you have on this?

DIANA RODGERS: Well, I-just along what you just said, which I love what you just said, Liz is the book Women, Food, and God. I don’t know. Have either of you guys read that? That’s a great book.


DIANA RODGERS: It’s a great book. I listened to it on a flight. I listened…she reads it, too, so if people, you know, want to pick that up. But I just think it’s really helpful because she sort of talks about forgiving yourself and how it’s not about the food, but it’s not not about the food, and just kind of getting to the underlying issues, which is also what Diane was talking about. Then another book that was highly recommended to me…I’ve actually started partnering with some therapists in my area, so kind of working through, you know, my doing the nutrition, and then them doing the sort of more emotional side to things. So this therapist recommended to me Changing for GooDiane Sanfilippo: A Revolutionary Six Stage Program for Overcoming Bad Habits and Moving Your Life Positively Forward. So I know that’s a mouthful, but that one is on Amazon, and I just bought it yesterday.
And then just physically regarding sugar cravings, I found that once you can sort of force yourself to develop a taste for sour, lacto-fermented type foods, that can really really help with sugar cravings. And then there’s a supplement that I used when I first went Paleo and was really sugar-addicted. I had a hard time in the beginning, and it was an amino acid Quick-Sorb by Biotics, I don’t know if you guys have ever tried that, but that’s just taking a couple of squirts of that when you have a sugar craving is all you need. And it just totally goes away. So those are my two cents.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Now those are good recommendations, too, and this is a bunch of stuff that I cover in the 21 Day Sugar Detox, which I think we’re going to talk about in the next question. But that’s, you know, that’s where the amino acid intervention or something like gymnema, which is an herb that can actually dull the sweet receptors on our tongue for a period of time so that when we eat sweet foods, we actually don’t even taste the sweetness of it. Different interventions like that can be really useful because again, this whole emotional thing and the food, like you said, Diana, it is about the food, but it’s not about the food. Like if we can sort of make little cuts in this circle or this cycle that’s happening and try and like intervene at different points whether it’s emotionally or the food itself, so you know. She’s trying to prepare her food for the day, but then different things get in the way. So like she’s trying some different things here. You know, the more little interventions you make that can help contribute to stopping this cycle, I think the better. So I think all of these recommendations can be really helpful and you know, start with one thing at a time. Excuse me. You know, if she wants to start with one supplement and looking into some EFT, you know, you can get a video online on how to do it. Excuse me. So yeah, I think that’s a really…it’s an interesting topic, so hopefully we’ll hear back from her on some progress there.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, for sure. All right. So let’s do this 21 Day Sugar Detox question: “Hey Ladies! I love listening to your podcast, it’s always giving me something to think about – therefore, new questions are always popping up in my head! I am currently doing Diane’s 21 Day Sugar Detox and am kicking its ass! I really fell off the” I think she…I think that colloquial wagon…maybe she means proverbial wagon? “over the holidays and am now 100% Paleo in addition to currently restricting sugar/carbs, as prescribed by the detox.

I have a couple of questions – I’ll be happy if you even just answer one (the second one)!” We’ll pop two of them. we’ll pop both of them in here.

Number one: “Is the coconut going to be Paleo’s peanut?! Aren’t there so many peanut allergies today b/c it is in Everything? Maybe it would take years to develop, but when I look at my Paleo replacement for things I’ve noticed I’m using coconut oil (vs. EVOO), coconut milk &/or coconut cream concentrate (omg, the concentrate descended from the heavens!) in my coffee and to make a makeshift ‘sweet treat’, I also drink coconut water, and have just bought some coconut flour – am I going off the deep end, here?!” I kind of like that question. I thought it was funny so I’ll jump in on that one when we’re done here.

Question number 2: “As I mentioned, I’m doing The 21-Day Sugar Detox, and am probably playing a little bit with ketogenesis. I probably have about 10 pounds of fat to lose (this is the same 10 pounds of fat I’ve been trying to lose since the nineties), I did not scale back my CrossFit training (Open, here I come!) so if I am feeling depleted I’ll pop a half of a sweet potato in the toaster oven at work for my pre-WOD energy. I’ve lost about 5 pounds so far (with another 7-10 to go – the first five fell off my body no problem, but now I’m “stuck” right where I usually get stuck at 159-160. I’m 5’5 and am pretty muscular (my back squat is 225)” Nice. “and have 8 days to go. I’d like to continue to do this until I reach my goal “look” -not necessarily weight, because of my training, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some muscle mass being added.

Question – is it difficult for the body to go back and forth between ketogenesis and regular metabolism? Does this mess with the body’s ability to metabolize carbohydrates ? And, finally, in coming off the sugar detox, how careful would I have to be in terms of adding natural sugars/fruits back in – does the system freak out if it’s too much (what’s too much, anyway?) Thanks so much, again, love the podcast!”

So I just say real quick my opinion on the coconut question. Yeah, so tree nuts are particularly allergenic because kind of particularly insidious lectins, I believe, and then so like I get the question, are we eating too much coconut? I think all we really need to say is that allergies are developed in response to proteins and not fats, and beyond that, I think coconut has been used in traditional cultures as like a staple food for centuries, so I really…not something I’d worry about. If you want to learn more about coconuts, though, Bruce Fife, F-I-F-E, is really like the Godfather of Coconut and he has some really cool books on the topic. I would say as much as I think coconut flour is pretty cool, it should probably be used sparingly just because it’s usually the base for, you know, sweetened items. I do throw some in like my meatballs when I make them, but just to add some binder, but that’s just my take on that. You guys?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I don’t…yeah, I don’t know…like I think, you know, the coconut allergy question, you know, are we going to develop that? It’s totally possible to develop that allergy, and exactly what you’re saying, Liz. Like it, we’re usually using a lot more fat-based things when we are eating coconut, so it shouldn’t be as big of an issue, but I already know there’s plenty of people who are allergic to coconut from, you know, from the get-go. And whenever you overdo, and I think more specifically plant proteins tend to do this than animal proteins, I mean, at least from what I’ve seen, we can become sensitive. So…for example, like I never noticed any sort of allergy to walnuts in my life, and then I had a period of time where I ate walnut butter a bit incessantly. If anybody’s ever tried walnut butter, it’s pretty ridiculously amazing. So I was eating a ton of it. I wasn’t eating peanut butter. I didn’t love almond butter, but walnut butter was like my Kryptonite, so now when I eat walnuts, I can feel kind of an itchy sensation in my mouth, and I think I did kind of provoke that sensitivity just from that period of time where I ate a ton of it. So part of that goes back to like rotating your proteins, a rotation diet, all that stuff is really standard. We don’t talk about it a lot with Paleo, but a rotation diet is a really common way to approach food sensitivities. I think it’s a very natural sort of Paleo-ish thing to consider that, you know, with different types of plants and animals, we would have eaten one type for a certain period of time, then we would have found another type that, you know, maybe we foraged in a different area or killed a different type of animal, and then we would eat that for however long.

And then we’d move on to the next one, kind of back and forth. And, you know, today, we tend to eat the same things over and over again. So you know, when people get stuck in that rut, you know, if you don’t have sensitivities, I wouldn’t be too worried about it. But if you’re prone to sensitivities, I would maybe a little bit concerned about just rotating things in your diet.

The other thing, too, like Liz, you mentioned specific lectins in peanuts that people are more sensitive to. So it’s important to note that like, you know, there are foods that just tend to be more allergenic than others. But one of the other issues with peanuts, which this could be one of the big things people are reacting to besides even the lectins are aflatoxins. So I would just do a little bit of Googling..we’ll stick this word in there, so that people can see what it is, but aflatoxins are something that people can be really sensitive to that tend to build up when grains and legumes are stored for longer periods of time. So this is something that’s one of the reasons why I think peanuts and peanut butter can be more of an issue than some other nuts, just because it happens to be the one that people became obsessed with. I don’t think that other nuts or seeds are immune to this issue, but I think it’s probably just, you know, it became our little dear of the nut category. So, you know, tons of peanuts are being grown and harvested, and then stored until they’re used.

LIZ WOLFE: But it’s not even a nut, it’s a legume.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Exactly. But there…you know, aflatoxins are, you know, a toxic substance and you know, they have to be metabolized by the liver and it can be a really big issue for some people. So I just would, you know, check that out and see that that may be what people are responding to. It may not even be the lectins, though it may. So, you know, that’s kind of my take on it. I share the same view with you, Liz. Like, just don’t make the whole coconut flour thing a regular thing every day and it shouldn’t really be something to worry about too much. Before we get to the second question that she had there, Diana, do you have something about the whole coconut, peanut issue?

DIANA RODGERS: Well, just, you know, the farmer’s perspective on peanuts is another thing, you know. Everyone’s coming up with peanut allergies and there’s more and more soil toxins out there, and one thing legumes are really, really good at is absorbing soil toxins. So I have a feeling and maybe there’s even some evidence out there that all these peanuts are absorbing all these toxins in the soil. Maybe people are reacting to the toxins that are on the peanuts than even, you know, and so their bodies’ then attacking peanuts, you know. Just like in a celiac type reaction.


DIANA RODGERS: And then just on the coconut thing, I see a lot of people like, you know, you see a new vegetarian and all they want is veggie burgers all the time, and they kind of get stuck on that. And then after awhile, they realize, okay, you know, life can be broader than veggie burgers. Or when I first found out I had celiac disease, I had gluten free everything, and then I sort of got away from that and realized, well, you know, I don’t really have to eat like the gluten free substitute, you know. So I think new people to Paleo tend to get really attached to the coconut products and bacon as like their kind of go-to things, and so just to be careful. Like you guys were saying, rotate other things in there, and that coconuts are really densely caloric. So that may be a motivator to just to kind of maybe not have every single thing coconut.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I think that’s a good point about the coconut, too. Many people do that with almonds a lot, where it’s just like, you’re new and you kind of make the switch, and you’re doing everything coconut. And you know, coconut oil, rightfully so, like I think we all like it for its cooking properties, but I think also a lot of us have come around on the whole grass-fed butter is healthy, if you tolerate, you know, the small amount of dairy proteins in it. So, you know, we’ve offered up an alternative to just using coconut oil for cooking and, you know, for health benefits, too. So yeah, I’m with you on that. I think a lot of that stuff tends to calm down in time, and hopefully it’s in time before people develop any kind of sensitivity, but yeah, I would check out some other sources of you know, calories if you just need to…if you’re worried about it.

So how about her next question about the 21 Day Sugar Detox and, you know, I kind of think it’s funny. We get these questions a lot where women kind of explain their scenario and it kind of goes on and on with that stream of consciousness, and then at the end of it, it’s like they’re concerned about that small amount of potentially weight loss or leaning out, and you know, I don’t mean to be dismissive of these concerns. I absolutely deal with it myself too where I’m like eh, let me try something and do this or that. But I just feel like she’s curious about how to really micromanage some of this stuff. And if you’re training for the Open, I would just do whatever fuels your body and makes you feel the strongest, and not be concerned too much with any kind of weight loss or fat loss or any of that, as much as we think that potentially losing a couple of pounds, you know, that might help your performance if you’re doing, you know, pull ups or that kind of thing. I actually find that when I’m being any bit restrictive, you know, with the types of foods that I’m eating, I’m not as strong. I can’t do metcons as easily. And if I just free eat and replenish, you know, before and after training and get in a decent amount of starchy carbohydrates like sweet potatoes, my body fat tends to go up a little, but my performance increases, too. So I just wouldn’t worry too much about, you know, the quote unquote look that you’re going for. If you’re training for the Open, that’s all you need to focus on right now.

Outside of that, I know she is curious about some of the issues around like ketogenic diet versus just eating regular amounts of carbohydrates, etc. I don’t know. I don’t have all of the answers for, you know, what your body will do. I think different people’s bodies might respond differently to the issue of whether you’re feeding on ketones primarily or glucose. I don’t know that it’s always one or the other. So if you get your body used to eating more fat, less carbohydrate, it can potentially become more efficient at using the fat metabolized as ketones for fuel source. And then I think that we can dip in and out of that mode from what I’ve read and what I’ve learned. We can dip in and out of that mode at different times, just depending on what fuel source is available to us in our system. So you know, if you’re eating more or less carbohydrates, but your body has been adapted to burning fat for fuel, I think you’re fine to kind of dabble back and forth.

But if you’re training hard, I really wouldn’t worry too much about reducing carbohydrate intake. Like if you were doing the 21 Day Sugar Detox and you were training hard, hopefully you were still eating a significant amount of carbohydrate in the form of starchy vegetables. The point of that detox with someone who’s athletic is more to just break the hold of sweets and sugary things and treats, and specifically, you know, more of the fruit type foods, and to keep those starchy foods in because I don’t want to inhibit somebody’s athletic ability or, you know, ability to replenish some glycogen to your muscles. That’s not the goal of the sugar detox at all. So adding things back in, you know, if you’re concerned about what to add in, I would just go slowly, make sure you’re focusing the fuel around your workout. You know, that meal before your workout, have some carbohydrate in there, and make sure your meal after your workout also has some carbohydrate, and you can follow the guidelines that I have in the Sugar Detox program. But the best way to know what feels and works the best for you is to write it down. And it’s not about being super nitpicky on weighing and measuring, but if you write down, I ate a sweet potato, this and that after my workout. Here’s how I felt the next day. You consistently log what you’re eating, what your training is, you’ll be able to figure out for yourself what works best for you. We can’t tell you this prescription is what will make you feel and perform your best. It really depends on each person and kind of what your system’s used to.

What was the other thing I was going to say about this? Ooh, actually I’ll let you guys see if there’s anything else, and I was thinking about one other thing for our previous question because this stuff is kind of related, so maybe I’ll bounce backwards for a second after we all kind of put in our two cents if we have it. Anybody have anything else on this one or is that kind of it?

LIZ WOLFE: I have no contribution whatsoever, but Diana, what about you?

DIANA RODGERS: Not really. I mean, I think that you’re right. Just focus on the Open. And I feel like, you know, I hear this a lot in Robb Wolf’s podcast and I hear this a lot from everybody where they’re trying to, you know, get super strong, get metabolically conditioned, lose 20 pounds, and, you know, just do all these things all at once by April 1st or whatever. So just to focus on one thing and just commit to one aspect is the smartest way to go.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, that’s an excellent point, you know. That’s…my clients, that happens all the time. They’re like, I want to lean out and get stronger and do this and do that. And it’s like, you have to pick one. I know, you know, I’ve definitely heard Robb said the same thing a million times, but it’s absolutely true. Like, you just can’t…we can’t do everything at once, so yeah, to focus on the Open.

Now I lost my thought again. Forget it. Okay. Oh, I know what I was going to say, and this I think applies, you know, potentially to this person, but I do want to just add it in to the previous question we had about the food issues and the bulimia and any kind of restriction. It’s…I don’t know. It’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately and this may be something that was spurred a bit by our micronutrient discussion with the Caltons on Naked Calories, but any time we go through periods of restricting food or, you know, having this interaction where we’re, you know, eating more or less, or we’re eating and then we’re doing something to remove that food from our system, if it’s a bulimic response, purging. We’re really sending signals to our cells about how we want them to respond to food and so if we’re constantly sort of playing around with things and being restrictive, then we can send different sort of starvation signals to our system. Or, you know, if we’re exercising really intensely like this person is, and then we’re not replenishing properly, we’re not doing ourselves any favors. you know, exercise is a really big nutrient depleter. Like really focus on the idea, and I know you guys talk about this a lot, learn about this a lot, but the idea of nutrient dense foods and when we think about what we’re eating and what we’re trying to accomplish, you know, shifting the focus from sometimes just the whole macronutrient thing to maybe the micronutrient thing. It’s like, hey, what kind of nutrition am I getting from this food, regardless of x number of calories, regardless of protein, fat, carbohydrate balance. It’s like, hey, I just worked out. I need tons of vitamin C to replenish the inflammatory effects or to counterbalance the inflammatory effects of exercise. I need tons of vitamin C, so you know, sometimes it’s just good to think about things that way vs. just, you know, protein, carbs, fat. Thinking about what your body really needs to repair from whatever it is you’re doing to it. I know it’s kind of a little bit random, but I like to share my random thoughts. And this is my podcast, so…

LIZ WOLFE: It’s what we do here at the Balanced Bites podcast.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think I can do that.

LIZ WOLFE: Talk about whatever the H you want.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Hey, but apparently, you know, men and women alike enjoy hearing us wax on about whatever we talk about. You actually…

LIZ WOLFE: Wax on! [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh boy, we’ve been talking for almost…how long has it been? Almost an hour already? So maybe let’s just do like one more question. And then we’ll kind of call it a day there. Sound good?

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, let’s do that. Should I just hop right into this next one that we have in the queue?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: About poop? I like to talk about poop.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. I mean, we teased the poop talk earlier, and I feel like we need to deliver on it.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay. All right.

LIZ WOLFE: In my opinion. Plus, considering this involves some children. We’re talking about some children. We may be able to get a good…wow, I sound like a perv when I said that.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: No, no, no. That’s fine. This one isn’t…I don’t think this one is the kid question. There’s another one that we were going to cover. The kid question. This one’s different.

LIZ WOLFE:Oh shoot.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: We might get to that one next time. We’re such a tease. Go ahead.

LIZ WOLFE: Uh oh. And now I’m all lost in this document here. Actually, you know what? I scrolled all the way down to the kids and the poop question, so you guys okay if I go ahead and ask it? ‘Cause Diana has some little ones. Maybe she’d be able to chime from any kind of personal experience.

DIANA RODGERS: I have a lot of experience with children and poop.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay then. Let’s do that one.

LIZ WOLFE: All right. Scroll on down to first line of this question is, so here is a question for you that I just can’t figure out. So everybody scroll down to that question and let’s answer it.


LIZ WOLFE: So here is a question for you that I just can’t figure out. Hopefully you guys can help! I made the transition to eating clean, real, Paleo food about a year and a half ago. Went cold turkey! And because I do all the cooking, my husband and three kids are along for the nutritional ride. My kids, still being little (now 2 years, 3 years, and 6 months old), made the transition smoothly. No fuss over no more pancakes or sandwiches. And my husband hardly complains either. That being said, we are almost 100% Paleo at home (except for the occasional gluten free waffles a special treat every now and then). And when we eat out, which is no more than once a week if even that often, my husband will eat whatever he wants off the menu, but I usually order the kids something gluten free and let them splurge on some grains and dairy, like cheese quesadillas on corn tortillas. So really the only gluten exposure my kids have is at church, where they give out animal crackers, and at Granny’s house, where she gives out lovely 100-calorie packs of cookies (sigh), and cake whenever we go to birthday parties and such.

So that is the background. Here is the problem/question. My 2 year old son has TERRIBLE bowel movements. And when I say terrible” Uh, I’m not going to talk about that part, but it’s bad. “It is really smelly, watery, and grainy. This has been going on for about 3 months now. I talked to his pediatrician about it and she ran some labs to check for a bunch of stuff like giardia and other bacteria. Everything came back normal. She recommended a children’s chewable probiotic. That didn’t help. We chatted about possibly checking for some food allergies, but she told me that since he doesn’t eat much gluten the tests wouldn’t be accurate anyway. She doesn’t know what to do next and basically told us to wait it out?! So my husband and I decided to put him on a strict 30 day elimination diet. No gluten, dairy or legumes at all. (We are bringing in a box of gluten free animal crackers to church so he doesn’t feel left out…but other than that on Sunday mornings, no grains either). There is still no change in his BMs. HELP! Should we just continue with the super strict elimination diet for longer? Maybe 30 days isn’t enough? Can eating too much fruit cause this? I do let my kids eat a lot of fruit. Hmmm.” And then she outlines a basic day of food.

“3 eggs and spinach cooked in coconut oil and a banana for breakfast. For snack, nuts, apple, turkey slices, grapes (probably not all of those on the same day). ” And just to throw in there, I’ll see what Diane and Diana have to say, but nuts can be kind of a digestive irritant. Like you got to be careful with those.

Anyway, lunch “usually protein leftovers from dinner, sweet potatoes, orange. A snack: banana/coconut smoothie, raisins, 90% dark chocolate (not all of these at the same time!). DinneDiana Rodgers: some sort of quality protein source and some veggies, and snack, carrots.
Do you have any ideas? Suggestions? We are willing to try anything at this point.”
So I’ll kick it out to you guys. What do you think?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I’ll let Diana try this first.


DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, go ahead.

DIANA RODGERS: Oh yes, since I have changed many diapers and have lots of experience with children with bowel movements. Just off the bat, you know, it first sounded a little bit like celiac, but you’ve eliminated the gluten. I’m wondering, he might still be getting some gluten, so just being really on the gluten for sure, but it also sounds like it could be fructose malabsorption. I don’t know what you other guys think, but fructose being…

LIZ WOLFE: You said fructose malabsorption?

DIANA RODGERS: Yeah. You know, grapes are so high in fructose, and it just looks to me he’s getting a lot of fructose. Kids are really into fruit. My kids would eat a lot more fruit if I didn’t restrict it. I’m not crazy about kids eating dark chocolate at all. There’s caffeine in chocolate, and you know, the chocolate is not a great food for children. And then the only other thing I’m thinking, you know, as I look at this diet is the coconut smoothie. Is there guar gum in that, you know, coconut milk? Or any other fillers? Guar gum can be hugely problematic, so…and the eggs, too. So you know, I have a feeling Diane would recommend an elimination diet, and I think just really being tight about his diet and really being on top of it, getting him on some good probiotics. So these chewable probiotics recommended by a pediatrician, they’re often full of sugar, so you know, getting him, you know, maybe a high end probiotic. Maybe you know, other liquid vitamins and just really healing his guts up. So, you know, I give my kids bone broth and have them drink it through a straw sometimes when they’re sick, so just cooling it down a little bit so it’s not like melting a plastic straw, but just so they’ll get more of it down. So those are sort of my tips.

LIZ WOLFE: I have a question for you, Diana. Do you find at all that kids need to be in a particular state of mind when they’re eating and digesting. I mean, is there any kind of like frenzied activity, that type of stuff going on? Can that affect kind of how they process things?

DIANA RODGERS: Oh, that’s a really good point. I mean, we always are sitting down when we eat, and we make them sit longer, you know, ’cause they’ll eat their food rather quickly, and so we make them sit and have a conversation, and for every single meal that we have at the house. And so yeah, definitely, if they’re in sympathetic mode, they’re definitely not digesting food, so that could be totally part of it, too.


DIANE SANFILIPPO: I really like that call out. I think it’s like whenever I talk about what people should be eating and how, and how to get digestion working properly, I always start at like the top of the whole chain of things, where it’s like actually before you even get to the food that’s entering your mouth, it’s your brain and your mindset, and the activity that’s happening there, so I think that’s a perfect call out. Like get the kid to calm down and sit because the entire digestive process will be different if you’re not in sympathetic dominant, which is fight or flight. You can get into the whole rest and digest mode.

So some stuff that I want to talk about because I think the whole fructose malabsorption is another really good callout, especially for kids eating tons of fruit. You just have no idea what could be provoking the problem, and it may not be something that you know…it’ may not be where he can’t eat fruit later. It may just be he’s on overload right now, and he needs to get that stuff out, reset his system, and start reintroducing things a little bit at a time. So whatever’s causing the problem, we can’t know when there’s so many different things happening in the diet that are potentially problematic. And this is where I think it’s really important to understand that just eating a Paleo diet is not always the end all be all because there are a lot of things that are still considered quote unquote Paleo that are very irritating to some people’s digestive function. So it’s a really good question.

I think as much as it sounds like it’s a little far-fetched and difficult, if you’re already willing to do what you think you need to do to get his system reset, I would really be a lot stricter about the elimination diet that you’re approaching. And even potentially if it just for two weeks, because you know, standard elimination diets, two weeks really is more the minimum. You don’t have to go as far as the 30 days. 30 days is obviously a much better standard. Even 60 or 90 days. But with a kid, I know it can be really hard, especially when he’s not, you know, if he’s not in the house all the time. But I think your kids are still young enough that you can probably keep him, you know, under whatever it is that you’re going to be putting out as the diet. So I would get this elimination down to a full on autoimmune protocol, which means, no grain, legumes, dairy. It also means no nuts or seeds. I doubt nightshades are a problem. I might potentially pull them out, so that’s tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, and eggplants. Potatoes, most people aren’t really touching too much on Paleo, but it’s white potatoes; sweet potatoes are still okay. So it would also mean eliminating eggs as Diana mentioned.

So let me think what else I want to say on that. So that would be the full approach. I would also pull the fruit out. As Diana said, the fructose could be a real big issue, so that may be in the whole category of FODMAPs may be an issue for him at this point, if he’s having trouble digesting his food. If he’s having loose eliminations and they’re quick, after his meal, like we don’t know how long it takes for that food to get out. But it’s sounding like he’s reacting pretty quickly. I’ve said this before but that response of diarrhea or very loose stools is happening in an urgent fashion, that’s your body saying, whatever’s in here, get it the heck out. We don’t want this stuff in our system. We don’t tolerate it. It needs to get out because it’s irritating and it just can’t be a part of the equation. I’d really get this kid down to like, meat, broth, maybe some starchy vegetables, like butternut squash or sweet potatoes that are peeled. Green beans can be okay, even though they’re quote unquote a bean, I think it may be okay. Carrots are usually okay. When we’re talking about a FODMAP, nightshade-free approach, so if he can eat more of that kind of stuff.

I would try and get in some l-glutamine, which can really help the gut lining repair itself. It’s a powder. Usually you can find it in a powder; just a couple of grams a day in some water should be fine. He can drink that down really easily, so that might really help rebuild his gut lining. I do think what Diana said, he could be celiac, it could be a latent celiac, where he’s having a different response. It may not be small intestine lining destruction or it may be a totally different reaction. But the other thing, I really just would keep good records about what you’re feeding him, how he reacts with his eliminations, and keep that written down, because that will be the best tool that you’ll have to look back and say, okay, he ate this and this is how he did.

So other ideas, too, if the broth is tough to get in, and there’s a lot of things in broth that are amazing and useful, you can always turn the broth into a stew, especially doing more meats. You can put sweet potatoes and carrots in the stew. That’s totally fine. But another way to get in maybe some gelatin, that might be helpful for his gut would be with tea jello, so this is something that I’m putting actually in my book, but you can make an herbal tea and then use like a Knox gelatin to whisk it in, and make jello out of that, and it doesn’t even need to be sweetened, just get an herbal tea. Even if it’s an herbal tea that has some stevia, I don’t think he would react, I don’t think there’s a fructose content to stevia, but it can be sweet to taste, and that’s like fun. A fun way for kids to get in some nutrients and, you know, it’s jello, but it’s totally legit if you’re just making it with a clean herbal tea, so there’s all different kinds of flavors, and they end up being some pretty cool, cool colors and that kind of thing, so I would try that, too.
But I would really go pretty strictly on his diet, and I just think the whole thing about him feeling left out. He’s so young. Like I would try and detach those emotions from this whole approach right now. I would just be focused on “this is what we need to do to get him healed.” So if it means you don’t even send the gluten free animal crackers to church, like I just don’t think any of that stuff is really necessary. You know, it’s…we’re perpetuating the societal norm, and it’s not…you know, it’s easy for me to say; I don’t have kids. Fine. But at the same time, this is just how people are, whether or not they’re dealing with kids. So if you’re perpetuating the fact that it’s normal and he should be able to have animal crackers, and so gluten free is a better option than ones with gluten, there’s still refined processed food and I would love for people to stop thinking that we have to feed our kids some form of…a better refined, processed food to keep things normal. Like, maybe start shifting the paradigm to get other people to see that feeding our kids refined, processed foods shouldn’t be normal. So I mean, it’s a lot to ask, but whatever. If anyone’s going to do it, it’s going to be somebody who’s trying to heal their kid and take a stand for what’s better for everyone. Off my soapbox now.

DIANA RODGERS: Yeah, it’s Diana. I just wanted to add in to that, too, that it’s really bad for kids to be having constant loose stools, and I know you’ve talked about this. I listen to the podcast in the past, but it’s compromising his immune system, and it should be taken really seriously, so to, you know, send in the gluten free animal crackers when he’s feeling so sick. You know, if your doctor told you, you know, the prescription was to send him in with, I don’t know, carrots, instead. Then you would do it. So you know, it’s just…not to second guess yourself, and just go ahead and do what you think is the right thing, and not what, you know, the other parents might be thinking or being worried about your kid feeling left out.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, sweet potatoes made into like some kind of little disc and baked and put cinnamon on it, I mean. I-my guess is that he’s going to be okay tolerating sweet potatoes, but like that can be a really amazing treat. It tastes really, really good. You know, pan fry them in a little bit of coconut oil with some cinnamon. I mean, I’m constantly…like I said, I don’t have kids, and I’m constantly trying to talk to parents about different ideas and ways to approach creativity around using whole food to support whatever’s going on with their kid at the time. So I think that that can be really, really effective. Yeah, and I’m absolutely with you like, it’s kids not digesting, especially if he’s having diarrhea responses, he’s not keeping any probiotic content in his gut at that point. If everything’s evacuating, it’s like good and bad is all coming out, so, you know, he might even, you know, if the probiotics still isn’t helping, try a different one.

Like different probiotics can work differently. God, I mean, I can talk for like days about this stuff, but a couple of us are points. I would maybe see if Whole Foods has one that comes from kombucha. I don’t know if the sugar in that’s going to be an issue, but maybe like a few sips of it, or if you make some at home, that could be useful. I don’t know what you guys think about that. Sauerkraut, I wouldn’t assume that the kid’s not going to like something that seems weird. I would let him try it. I would make it into some kind of like interesting game. I don’t know what game you might want to play with the kid, but seriously, and if you’re eating it, and it’s on your plate all the time, I don’t know. That might be motivating. Maybe you make it together. Have them, you know, help you peel lettuce, er, peel cabbage leaves off of the cabbage. See if that’s helpful. I don’t know, you know. Just different things to try.

There’s one other thing I had…there’s a thought for this, but of course, I’m constantly losing my train of thought because I have way too many ideas for people. So that’s really what I’m thinking for him. So I think that’s it for today’s call, today’s recording. I think we have to say good bye to Liz because I think she’s got an appointment that we’re holding her back for, and yeah, that’s everything for today. Are you peacing out?

LIZ WOLFE: I’m peacing out. I love you. Bye bye.




DIANE SANFILIPPO: So yeah, we have to wrap things up here, but anything else, Diana, that you want to kind of throw out at people. Are you…do you have any upcoming talks that you’re doing or are things pretty much quiet for now? What’s going on?

DIANA RODGERS: I had a lot going on in January, and February, I just got a , you know, a couple small things, just locally here, and then it’s the big next thing is PaleoFX, which I’m so excited to see you again, and to meet Liz in person, and everybody else. I’m really excited about.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Cool, so what’s your website again, so people can check it out. We’ll link to it, but let people know where…

DIANA RODGERS: Okay, yeah. Yup, it’s

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Cool. And Diana’s in the Boston area, so if you’re in the Boston area, and you want to see if there’s any talks to come to, or if you want some consultation help, I would say even, you know, especially if you’re dealing with issues with family or kids. I mean, I recommend that people contact Diana all the time, and just kind of use her as another reference point, so highly recommend that you get some help from her if you’re in that area, and are looking for that kind of assistance, and that’s pretty much it. So we’ll probably have you come chat with us again sometime, especially around these kinds of issues with kids and family, and maybe we’ll kind of collect up another like set of questions that are all related and have you come back and do that sometime, or who knows? We’re just going to loop different people in so that our listeners can get a lot of different points of view, and I think it’s always valuable to get little nuggets on whatever might help. So thanks for coming.



DIANA RODGERS: Well, thank you. Thanks a lot for having me. It was great.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And I will talk to you soon. All right, cool. Talk to you later.

DIANA RODGERS: All right. Bye bye.



  • Ali

    Diane mentioned in answering one of the questions that she didn’t have children and can’t relate to the listener in the challenge of controlling what food the children eat when out of the house. It is VERY difficult and especially this week, with the Valentine’s parties at school, was a challenging week for me. Of course I volunteered (as I almost always do) to provide the snacks/treats for the classes. I made fresh fruit kabobs drizzled w/ dark chocolate. What a great treat, right? No gluten, no artificial junk, etc. Some of those kids acted as if they’ve never had fruit. I was completely amazed and how many were thrown in the trash because all the kid wanted was the total junk they were given by their classmates with the valentine card. My kids know when we get home I “trade them out” for stuff we can have (sundrops, dark chocolate, yummy earth lollipops) and they might get one each day as a treat. So then I found out both of my kids were given those little conversation hearts for a math activity. Of course my kids didn’t have to eat them, but they’re 4 & 6 and all their friends are eating them and they both ate them. My son had a meltdown/angry fit later that day which I attribute to all the artificial color. My daughter had 25 of them! Might as well have had a Coke–at least there’s no artificial color in that, but same amt of sugar. I just threw up my hands and said, “why do I even bother?” What’s a mom/parent to do? I make my kids’ lunches and snacks daily and try to control as much as possible their intake (because of food sensitivities as well as general health), but sometimes it’s a battle that is just too difficult. Thankfully Sarah Fragoso’s book should come in the mail today so I can help talk w/ my kids about this lifestyle (though we are Christian, we like the health aspects of Paleo eating). I don’t want to make my kids the “weird kids”, but am instead explaining to them how we can be an example for others. They know a lot about healthy eating at their young age and definitely know junk from good food, gluten from non-gluten foods, and artificial color. I think it’s important for them to know this, but also to let them experience the tummy aches, loose stool, and behavior issues when they ingest the junk. And they do! And they make better choices the next time. It’s a battle that I’m willing to fight. I am looking into the farm to school program, but know that will be a battle as well, but I am up for the challenge! Thanks for your die-hard commitment to this way of life. Keep it up girls!

    Thank you,
    Ali, mom of 2 from Kansas

    • Liz

      Hi Ali! I’m from Kansas too :)

      When you discuss the fact that you’re a Christian, I assume you’re thinking about the evolutionary aspect of the common theories behind “Paleo-style” eating. I just wanted to say – I think this way of eating is totally compatible with being a practicing Christian, even if you’re not interested in “evolutionary biology.” That’s why I love this so much – it works from a scientific angle as much as from a theistic angle. It’s the act of eating thoughtfully, appreciating the amazing provisions here by the grace of (nature, God, happenstance) that keep us healthy and vital and able to move forward. Eating this way also means being a responsible steward of our bodies and the Earth, which are, in my opinion, the greatest gifts we’re given and the most profound opportunity to express gratitude, love, character principles, honesty, thoughtfulness, and integrity, which (if I remember my early childhood Sunday School correctly) are really the cornerstones of living out the Christian faith. Also, those friends of mine who have children who are most successful in implementing this WOL are simply honest with their kids – why certain foods are very bad, and why others are not. The kids are delighted to make good choices and inform other kids of the issues, which is quite cute IMO. Anyhow, it sounds like you’re doing great, and we truly appreciate your listening!

  • Keith

    I would have liked to hear more from your guest. While I enjoy to hear you (Diane) and Liz, the time was monopolized by the hosts and the guest had very little input. Isn’t that the point of having a guest speaker?

    • admin

      Of course! This was Diana’s first time coming on to a podcast, so we didn’t want to overwhelm her and, honestly, we didn’t ask the listeners for a list of questions for her specific area of focus ahead of time. We may do so in the future, especially if we hear from people that they want to hear more from Diana! :) We loved having her in the mix but it wasn’t the same type of guest feature as other shows have been, sorry if that was confusing. We wanted to introduce people to her before we’re all on a panel together in a few weeks at PaleoFx in Austin!

  • kate

    Could you list the books that were mentioned in the first question?