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Last week's episode post now has a written transcript available. We will be playing a lot of catch-up, but bear with us as they're on their way! We'll also be trying to get current episode transcripts up-to-date and loaded with each podcast but it'll take another couple of weeks before we catch up there as well. We hope you're enjoying them!
1. Dating and Paleo [16:40] 2. Popsicles pre-colonoscopy? [32:16] 3. Can you be a Paleo Wine-o? [36:27] 4. Probiotic cleansers & can you live “too clean?” [46:08] 5. Coconut oil drain clog? [50:46]
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Welcome to the Balanced Bites Podcast with Diane Sanfilippo and Liz Wolfe. Diane is a certified nutrition consultant and The New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo. Liz is a nutritional therapy practitioner and the author of Modern Cave Girl. Together, Diane and Liz answer your questions, interview leading health and wellness experts, and share their take on modern paleo living with their signature friendly and balanced approach. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only and are not to be considered as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone, it's Liz and Diane. Diane is back this week. Welcome to Episode 85 of the Balanced Bites Podcast! Hey boogie, how's it hanging?
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, it's awesome. Oh, Target lady.
Liz Wolfe: Happy birthday!
Diane Sanfilippo: Thank you! I'm so old.
Liz Wolfe: Shut up.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ahhh! The Target lady.
Liz Wolfe: She's our old standby.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yep.
Liz Wolfe: How many times have we watched that video?
Diane Sanfilippo: As many times as we've done a road trip or probably been sitting in an airport waiting for flights to take off to go teach. That's kind of our no-fail comic relief. I'm pretty sure there's a self-picture of us in a hotel room watching it and cracking up, and we were like: This is too funny!
Liz Wolfe: Oh, my gosh.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Well, now we're going to have to link to the Target lady.
Liz Wolfe: Tissues for tears! Welcome to Turget!
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, my gosh. I could die. That's so funny. So hopefully people are enjoying the transcripts. We are typically about a week behind, and in case anyone isn't sure what that happens, it's because we like to be very timely with our podcast and make sure that we're up to the minute with current events. I'm just kidding. We actually tend to get so busy that we record the podcast literally the day before it goes live… or it gets posted. People get confused about the term ‘going live.' Going live is different from airing live. But anywho, tonight is Wednesday and so our transcriber has to get a little bit of time to go ahead and do that, so we're kind of one week behind right now, and we promise within maybe a month or so we'll try and get ourselves ahead so that we actually do have the transcripts up at the same time as when the podcast goes live, but we also have amazing plans over the next few months to have the first 80 podcasts all transcribed. We have another person who's going to help do that, and it'll just take some time because as you know, episodes are about an hour long, and it takes a while to get all of our ramblings down into black and white text.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I cannot imagine that task.
Diane Sanfilippo: I'm grateful for those who are doing it.
Liz Wolfe: And I'm sorry to those who are doing it!
Diane Sanfilippo: Only when you try and speak German.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, yeah. That.
Diane Sanfilippo: Brackets – laugh.
Liz Wolfe: Hahahaha. Back to serious. So, did you hear my news?
Diane Sanfilippo: Which news?
Liz Wolfe: That we have ticks in the country. Apparently God wanted ticks to live on my homestead.
Diane Sanfilippo: This is why I live basically on concrete and have a grassy patch next to the condo.
Liz Wolfe: I get it now. Next year I'm going to be talking about our dream of owning a condo in a high-rise building!
Diane Sanfilippo: Yes.
Liz Wolfe: It's OK, though. It's OK. It's just funny how much I hate ticks. They're the one thing that I cannot… I cannot take it.
Diane Sanfilippo: The thing I think might be worse than ticks… Well, listen, not really worse than ticks, because if something happens from a tick and you have to deal with Lyme disease and it becomes chronic, OK. But I'll tell you what could be worse. Do you want to guess? Bed bugs.
Liz Wolfe: No, because you can just put some diatomaceous… OK, we'll get to this.
Diane Sanfilippo: All right, you can't just put diatomaceous earth down and then they just die.
Liz Wolfe: Don't you freakin' tell me that because I spent all day putting… Let me tell you what I did. So I spent the day basically alternating between freaking out and putting diatomaceous earth and neem oil all over everything. I ordered probably my entire month's salary worth of beneficial nematodes, you know, so Googling ‘holistic, organic tick treatment, homestead,' and I found this website that sells…
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, my gosh.
Liz Wolfe: This is cool, though. But it's weird how much I hate ticks when you consider how much I love vampire fiction. It really is kind of silly. So I got these beneficial nematodes, which you basically spray them and these little nematodes parasitize all of the ticks and the baby ticks and all that stuff, and they eat them, and then they go away.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, they die, right?
Liz Wolfe: They leave forever, and they never come back. That's what's happening. So you'll understand why I'm doing this podcast with a jug of wine and a pack of Hail Merrys in front of me. I'm just kidding.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think it does sound really freaky. The flipside of your homestead coin was being in San Francisco for seven years, and at one point a really good friend of mine had a bed bug situation, and it has nothing to do with how clean you are or any of that stuff. One of my friends who happened to travel a lot, which as you know, Liz, from staying in hotel rooms with me, I consistently check the creases of the bed to make sure there's nothing creepy, and I also don't stay in questionable hotels, not that, again, it's a cleanliness issue, but if there was an issue in the hotel, if it's a reputable place, they're probably going to take care of it pretty quickly because they don't want word spreading about a bed bug issue. Anyway, long story short, I was really worried about getting bed bugs this one year I was living there, and my cat was sick – not Paleo Kitty, but the cat I had before – and she came home from the vet and apparently probably brought a couple of fleas home. And this was in the whole bed bug scare, and bed bugs were kind of at a peak at that point, too, just nationwide. I think New York City was having issues. And so I basically kind of freaked out because I saw these little dead bugs at the end of my bed where the cat had been sitting, and I freaked out and thought they were bed bugs and did a ton of research on that and just kind of did the same thing with all kinds of weird oils and just really had a time of it just being completely freaked out. I mean, I had some bites on my leg, and I was really convinced that that's what was going on. So yeah, for people who are looking for the solution to that, my big solution that I discovered, and it was watching a documentary, actually, on an airplane one day, was that if you heat your entire house to, like, 120 degrees – obviously you would not be inside of it when this happens.
Liz Wolfe: Thanks.
Diane Sanfilippo: You have to pump some kind of hot air tubing that comes in the windows, and you literally heat your entire house to 120 or 110 degrees, something like that, and the bed bugs cannot live and the eggs cannot live. So if you're looking for a nontoxic way to kill bed bugs!
Liz Wolfe: So, tell me how that helps me. Am I going to put a… What's that Pauly Shore movie with the dome?
Diane Sanfilippo: Bio-Dome?
Liz Wolfe: I have to put a big bio-dome over my homestead and heat it up really hot and kill all the ticks?! I hate you.
Diane Sanfilippo: With ticks, I think, isn't the biggest thing just kind of checking your body and your skin pretty much every day?
Liz Wolfe: Yes. But that means they're already on you. I want to stop them from getting on me.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, you just moved to the country, honey. I'm just telling you right now: You’re in for it.
Liz Wolfe: My husband goes: What did you think was going to happen? I was like: I don't know.
Diane Sanfilippo: You were like: I was going to have chickens and goats! And that's all I knew! I don't know, man. You're stronger than I am because I cannot imagine. Look, I love taking hikes, but sleeping outside isn't my thing, and bugs coming into my house…
Liz Wolfe: Not your thing.
Diane Sanfilippo: No. It freaks me out.
Liz Wolfe: I will say, though, my husband has found ticks on him, the movers that came and dropped off all of our crap today… I highly recommend culling through your crap and getting rid of the super crap before you ship all of your crap across the country and have to unload all of your crap.
Diane Sanfilippo: I'm getting the heebie-jeebies over here about the ticks.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, no. Well, I don't think they're inside, but everybody else has gotten them except for me and the dog, and I'm telling you it's because ever since we got here I've been spraying this… I think it’s called Equiderma. It's like horse fly spray.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ha!
Liz Wolfe: It's crazy! It has neem extract… I'm glad that my vampire bug problem is amusing to you.
Diane Sanfilippo: I'm sorry.
Liz Wolfe: No, but it's good, though, because I've been spraying that all over myself and all over the dog, and I've been outside all day, every day, and so far… I did catch a tick trying today.
Diane Sanfilippo: Augh!
Liz Wolfe: But it was not on me.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think I would instantly tell my husband that I was ready to move back. I think I would be crying, like: I can't do this. I think I would just freak out.
Liz Wolfe: I just have to get used to it. That's all it is. It's one of those things where a month down the road…
Diane Sanfilippo: You'll just become an expert!
Liz Wolfe: Yep, pretty much. But if anybody has some kind of miracle tick treatment, if anybody has figured out how to reason with those guys and wants to send me a script on that, just please let me know. Come leave a comment on the podcast post at CaveGirlEats.com, so I'll be more likely to see it if you have some advice for me on these ticks. And please don't leave something all about how scary and awful Lyme disease is and how I have to be really vigilant because I do know that and I'm already completely terrified, so I only want to hear good news. Tell me about the magic root that grows in my front yard or the magic music I could play.
Diane Sanfilippo: Liz, you're going to be so used to just doing a tick scan pretty much every day that it'll be just like taking your cod liver oil. It'll just be part of your routine and you'll just check yourself, and it'll be OK.
Liz Wolfe: It'll be fine.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: We're getting some guinea hens tomorrow.
Diane Sanfilippo: So will they eat them?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, they eat the ticks, except all of my diatomaceous earth is going to kill all of them, so maybe they won't have any ticks to eat. I don't know.
Diane Sanfilippo: Then the ticks end up becoming nourishing food for you when the chickens, hens, whatever they are, eat them and enrich the nutrient value of their eggs.
Liz Wolfe: How many people do you think are still listening to Episode 85?
Diane Sanfilippo: We've lost everybody.
Liz Wolfe: Sorry, everyone. This is actually a fun episode, too.
Diane Sanfilippo: The funny thing is, for people who don't know – and nobody listening to this podcast is unaware of this situation – but we were teaching seminars together for about a year and then now we haven't for a couple of months, and it's like we actually don’t even get to talk very often, so here we are catching up.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: And so for those of you who are not interested in us sort of catching up on the goings-on of the homestead and everything else, I supposed you'll just be able to fast-forward.
Liz Wolfe: I suppose. Maybe you should wait for the timestamps. By the way, I was thinking of you because there's a new New Girl episode.
Diane Sanfilippo: We're missing it.
Liz Wolfe: We're missing it?
Diane Sanfilippo: I think so. Well, Hulu. It's always Hulu.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Whomp, whomp. So anyway, what's going on with you?
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, I'll try and be brief then. How have you been? Other than Friday evening dropping a 90-pound barbell on my head… yeah. So basically my two biggest fears in terms of the weird, semi-dangerous things that I do all the time – having nothing to do with ticks or homesteading – are number one, dropping a barbell on my head, which has been this thing that I've said to my mother: If there's one reason I'll get insurance, it'll be catastrophic just in case I drop a barbell on my head. No joke! So what did I do last week? I was overhead squatting and I had 90 pounds up there. It was actually the last rep of all we were doing for our strength workout, and for whatever reason, I had to be a hero for a change. I'm usually really quick to bail on a heavy weight. I'm like: Eh, I have nothing to prove. I don't really care. And I just didn't let go and bail, and I'm sure it wasn't a full 90 pounds of force, but this barbell hit me straight in the noggin, right on top of the head. The bruise isn't as bad as I thought it would be. We iced it pretty much right away. My coach tossed me an ice pack. So that happened.
Liz Wolfe: Get back up. Here's an ice pack.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and then I proceeded to do a whole bunch of front squats and not really many handstand pushups because that was not really going to happen so well. But the other huge thing I'm scared of is for some reason there being a short in the electric that runs my garbage disposal one time when I happen to reach down there for something. I just have this huge fear that suddenly that motor will just turn on and chew up my fingers because I dropped a spoon and I'm trying to fish it out. But somebody on Facebook today that I'm friends with was talking about how they basically chopped up their hand because they forgot to pull the blade part off of their Magic Bullet and didn't unplug the thing. And if you know how the Magic Bullet works, you basically screw the blade and the cup on and then turn it in and twist it, and that turns it on. It's not this separate button.
Liz Wolfe: Yep.
Diane Sanfilippo: So she basically turned the thing on by accident, and I was like: Noooo! That's my other biggest fear besides dropping a barbell on my head.
Liz Wolfe: I've actually done that before with my hand.
Diane Sanfilippo: Awh!
Liz Wolfe: It was a stick blender, and I reached in to clean it out…
Diane Sanfilippo: Dawh!
Liz Wolfe: And was holding it…
Diane Sanfilippo: Mmh! I don't know how those noises will be transcribed. Oh, man. So anyway, that happened. That was actually last week. And then other than that, I've been feverishly sort of working on recipes and photos for The 21-Day Sugar Detox book that'll be coming out… I think it's the end of September it's coming out. And shooting the pictures for that… Boy, I've had to let go of the perfectionism that I've often been plagued with, having to just kind of shoot them, make sure they're clear and look pretty good, and then just move on to the next one. So that's kind of been my life, and I'm packing up to head out on the Low-Carb Cruise. We leave on Sunday out of Galveston. And so I've been packing and kind of getting ready for that. And then this Friday, so this podcast will air on Thursday, so if you're listening on Thursday or Friday and you're in the Pittsburgh area, Bill and Hayley from The Food Lovers Kitchen are having a huge party for the release of their book, Gather, and I think it's 7 p.m. at this place called Bar Marco. There are all kinds of information about it on their website and Facebook and all that. So if you are in the Pittsburgh area, come to the party. I will be there, and I believe Stacy from Paleo Parents will be there, and we're going to have a good time. We will miss you, my dear.
Liz Wolfe: Of course, you will. You'll all get fizzy on kombucha and call me. You'll kombucha text me.
Diane Sanfilippo: OK, so shall we answer some questions for people?
Liz Wolfe: I guess. I was really hoping we could do 52 minutes of catch-up nothing. This is terrible. I'm sorry, everyone. Episode 85!
1. Dating and Paleo [16:40]
Question #1: Dating and paleo. I was so excited for this one. This is from Ms. Cohen. “Hi, girls! I have a question, and while I realize this is not exactly your area of expertise…” Umm, yeah, it is.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it is.
Liz Wolfe: “… I still have a feeling you might be able to help. I'm 28, single, and I'm having trouble dating with people that are non-paleo. This disqualifies about 99.9% of males in my age group. I'm looking to find someone that shares the same lifestyle and understands why I don't drinking alcohol, I don't eat processed foods, and I go to sleep early, etc. Any tips on how I can raise my chances of finding this? Someone should really create a paleo dating website.” I think there have been several of those that kind of didn't work out. “Any advice? PS I really love to say Anonymous.” Woops. Did we…? Is that anonymous?
Diane Sanfilippo: I think the ‘Ms. Cohen' thing… I'll tell you what: Cohen is actually a name in my family lineage. I think it's like basically being a Smith or a Jones but, like, Jewish.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, my gosh. That makes me miss Seth Cohen on The OC.
Diane Sanfilippo: Good stuff.
Liz Wolfe: Good one.
Diane Sanfilippo: I didn't actually watch The OC.
Liz Wolfe: You didn't need to.
Diane Sanfilippo: No. I mean, I can talk about this from the ‘I was single for the first almost three years of being paleo' perspective, or pretty much single. And I was a little bit older than she is. I just turned 35. Yikes.
Liz Wolfe: Shut up.
Diane Sanfilippo: So try being over 30 and trying to date when you're not only paleo, but… I don't know what to call myself! I mean, people still proclaim me the paleo police or some kind of guru, which I don't consider myself to be. But people get around me, and if they know anything about paleo, they kind of freak out like I'm not going to be able to socialize, or they think that they're not going to be able to feed me. I mean, consistently people are worried about feeding me. They're like: She's got a cookbook, so I have to make something exciting. So add all of that to the stress, and I feel you, Ms. Cohen or whatever your name may actually be.
The things that I can typically recommend… If this is your priority, and obviously for me it was, I really thought I have to date someone who's either pretty much paleo or totally gets it or is very willing to learn about it, right? And I've had a lot of guy friends who for some reason think it's not that big of a deal or not that hard to teach a girl they're dating about paleo and get them to change, and I think part of it is that girls are just much quicker to change their ways for a guy or want to than the opposite, and I'm not a sociology/psychology expert, but it's just what I've seen. And women are also pretty typically, you know, if they have a fit guy that they're dating and they think he knows something about working out and nutrition, they might listen to him. And I know that in many households, the woman is the one who kind of leads the health crusade and she's trying to make changes for better health, but interestingly enough, in the community that I run in now, primarily in the CrossFit community, a lot of times it is the men who are at the gym and they're going home talking about paleo, and the wife's like: What the heck? What is that? So long story short, my best advice would be kind of the following: Number one, put yourself where they are. Put yourself where men who already eat paleo are. I think it's probably the easiest to find somebody who already gets it. Obviously it's not the only way to go, but if you are considering CrossFit, now would be a good time. There are lots of guys who if they're not paleo, if they don't eat paleo, if they maybe eat paleo most of the time, quite often they'll at least know about it or know that it's something they should be doing, so you won't get the same weird response about it. Maybe you'll find someone who's ready to kind of dive in. Who knows?
I don't know what your background is. I mean, if your name really is Cohen, then church might not be the place. Maybe a synagogue. Who knows what? But when it comes to just this whole idea of a healthy lifestyle that's not revolving around junk food or partying, whether it's alcohol or drugs or that kind of thing, and those things all do kind of go hand in hand sometimes. People who are eating a lot cleaner tend to maybe not drink as much. And it doesn't mean that we don't drink alcohol ever, but perhaps not as much or as often or whatever.
Liz Wolfe: We probably don't play beer pong… as much as we used to.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I mean, it's a whole different lifestyle, right? You change your food, and then a lot of things about your lifestyle change, so go to a place where that kind of person kind of maybe hangs out. I had in my notes here: “Church??” I mean, it's a great place to meet nice people who might have some similar interests. What else? When it comes to paleo, sometimes there are paleo Meetup groups, and they're not meant to be dating groups, but what I would say about that is just meet new people who are paleo, and they will have friends. They'll have friends who maybe aren't paleo but they've watched their friends make a change, and then maybe they're interested. And you can't always assume that somebody who isn't paleo today won't make the change. Although obviously you don't want to go into a situation or a relationship trying to change somebody, seeing what kind of mindset they have – Are they an open-minded person? Are they somebody who thinks they know everything, or are they willing to learn some things from you and are you willing to learn some things from them?
I actually think it's really fun to try and give some dating advice versus health advice for a change. And for me, I find that what has worked the best in the last couple of years, I can say, I suppose, is having friends introduce me to people that they know. And that's really something that I always knew was probably the best way to meet people once you're out of high school and college and once you perhaps don't work with as many people who might be of interest to you. I've worked in some environments where nobody around me was attractive to me in terms of lifestyle and shared interests, but then I started working for myself and mostly by myself, so I wasn't going to meet somebody through work. So that's kind of what I'm thinking. I don't know, Liz. Do you have any other thoughts on that, what you would do at this point?
Liz Wolfe: What I would do. Don't ever do what I would do, people. Children, take a message from your Auntie Liz: Don't ever do what I would do. Actually, do. Like I've said before, I advise everybody to marry my husband. I don't know how I got so lucky, but he's definitely a guy that was always willing to learn from me, and he inspired the same thing in me. I wanted to learn from him, and we just kind of… I think looking for someone who is willing is probably the number one thing. It doesn't have to be a paleo guy already, but someone who is just a willing spirit and willing to talk about something and give it a whirl and doesn't have some kind of sense of offense that maybe his way is wrong you're wanting to do something else, just somebody who's open first as a quality.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: And that can be an adventure.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think that's a really good point because this is something that has come up as a challenge in my life, too, and it has not been specifically about nutrition, but just some other ways of thinking in my life, and I think a lot of times we have those preconceived notions, right? So perhaps you meet somebody who you think is really great and he doesn't eat paleo. He can still be a really great person, right? But what matters most is, like what you just said, the willingness. It's the whole thing about is that person open-minded and also kind of wise enough to know that they don't know everything and that there are things to learn and that perhaps if they're interested in you, he'll open his mind up to the fact that there might be another way that he never even knew about. This is stuff that we kind of talk about at the workshop sometimes where we're talking about that level of awareness. Like, maybe this guy that you might meet somewhere doesn't even know what paleo is, so if we just discount people right away who never had an awareness, never had any thought about it, then we might really be missing out on some great people. But then again, if you try and date this guy for a month or two months or three months and he's just not open-minded, he's not showing signs that he likes you enough to learn something or get interested in the things that you're interested in, then it's not going to work. But if you give it a little bit of time and then you discover that he's actually really open-minded… I think, obviously the first pieces of advice I had about where to find people who are paleo and how to make that a little bit easier is great, but at the same time, I think the point that you just made, Liz, was really almost just as important, if not more so, that you have this person who can learn and grow with you about things.
Liz Wolfe: You just have to seek the right qualities, you know?
Diane Sanfilippo: Because neither of you were paleo, right? When you guys met?
Liz Wolfe: No.
Diane Sanfilippo: How did that evolution happen within your relationship? Because a lot of the relationship will hinge on what you eat. I mean, that's what fills your house up. It's how you choose to be social. So how did that transition kind of happen for you guys?
Liz Wolfe: I honestly am not 100% sure because he was in to CrossFit, but it was kind of when it was still the Zone Diet stuff before all the paleo stuff came out, and then I got into CrossFit in Kansas City and gave it a whirl, and then it's just one of those things where – a lot of people listening understand – it's just so fascinating and it's so fun that you just kind of stick with it permanently, which is why it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle. But I think my big win was landing a guy with the right overall qualities, like, just a good man that wanted to listen to me and learn together and try new things together. And you know what? If you're into someone other than you… You know, we say if he's into you, he'll want to learn this, this, and this. Well, if you're into someone other than you, then you'll want to learn, too, you know? I got over myself a little bit, a lot, in my relationship with my husband and realized that I was really for a long time only worried about what I cared about, and I wasn't really a listener. I was kind of more of a talker. So yeah, it's those overall qualities that I think are important. I don't know. I don't know anything, man. I've got ticks in my yard.
Diane Sanfilippo: No, I definitely agree with you, and I think there are a lot of other qualities… Like, just to kind of throw this out there in terms of the way that I framed things about the type of guy I was looking for – and this is not to be offensive. I'm sure people will be offended, but I had been saying for years I don't want to go out with a banker. And it's not to say there aren't plenty of guys who work in finance who are awesome, amazing, smart, interesting, fun, great people, but I just knew in my heart that somebody who had that type of a job and was passionate about it and loved it, they probably wouldn't jive with me, because of just the way I think, the way I live my life, all this other stuff, really having not much to do with my food. And I did go out with this guy on a date, and he was basically a banker. He worked for a hedge fund. And he was awesome. A really, really great guy, but it just wasn't clicking. And I always knew in my heart that somebody who was an entrepreneur or who worked in this sort of holistic, health, wellness type of field was more of a right fit for me. And it really didn't have as much to do with the specifics of, like, he needs to do CrossFit, he needs to eat paleo, he needs to do this, that, and the other thing. It's just the type of person, like we've been saying, and I think that is really kind of at the crux of it.
So hopefully if you're out meeting people… You know, I don’t know that meeting someone at a bar is the best way to go about it. Obviously, all kinds of great people can be at a bar, but I just think it's not… I always said about myself I don’t feel like I'm myself or my best self if I'm at a bar. It's not really the person I want to introduce to somebody else. I'd rather meet somebody at the gym or at a restaurant where I'm much more myself. Like, that's me. I wear Lululemon all the time. I don't wear the high heeled shoes and the cute outfit all the time. That's me 2% of the time, if that, so I want to meet somebody where they're going to see me really in my element and how I feel best. I think that's really important.
Liz Wolfe: I always look the best at bars drunk with makeup on under dark lights.
Diane Sanfilippo: Nice, Liz. Obviously that's how you met your husband, too.
Liz Wolfe: Clearly that's where we met.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, hopefully that helps.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, we probably could talk about that all day.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know, it would be great if there were a paleo dating website, but I'm sure you can search for paleo or CrossFit or primal, and if somebody's read The Primal Blueprint, at least it's not totally new to them. Not like I would know from being on dating websites years ago or anything like that. But yeah, I think that should be helpful. Good luck! Report back when you're no longer single… in, like, five years. Look, I was basically single for about three years… basically since I went paleo!
Liz Wolfe: Wow, if we're taking a random sample here, if we're gauging cause and effect within a population… being paleo causes singleness.
Diane Sanfilippo: But you get hotter… I'm just kidding.
Liz Wolfe: You get hotter and way more judgy and way more obsessed with bacon-wrapped dates.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mmm, bacon-wrapped dates.
Liz Wolfe: Bacon-wrapped dating.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ohhhh, what!?
Liz Wolfe: That is the name of the paleo dating website. Oh, my gosh.
Diane Sanfilippo: Bacon-wrapped dating? That's the name of this podcast right now.
Liz Wolfe: Yes, it is.
Diane Sanfilippo: We are punchy today.
Liz Wolfe: Punchy. Speaking of dating, how about question #2?
Diane Sanfilippo: OK.
2. Popsicles pre-colonoscopy? [32:16]
Liz Wolfe: Titled “Doc says to eat popsicles and milkshakes?”
Diane Sanfilippo: How is that speaking of dating?
Liz Wolfe: I don't know. Somebody's mind will go there.
Diane Sanfilippo: Whoa. OK, all right. This podcast just took a turn!
Liz Wolfe: Oh, lordy. All right, this is from Janet.
Diane Sanfilippo: We have to have fun when we do this or we won't do it, right?
Liz Wolfe: Yes. OK. “I'm finishing up my 21-day detox tomorrow. I'm receiving my colonoscopy in May, and I was wondering what alternatives are out there for me besides popsicles and milkshakes.” I swear to you, I didn't know what this question said when I said speaking of dating. Swear to you.
Diane Sanfilippo: OK.
Liz Wolfe: “… besides popsicles and milkshakes, which are what they told me to eat. As you know, you cannot have solid foods the day before your scheduled test.” Yes, this is true, but Diane, do you have any idea why they would tell her to eat popsicles and milkshakes besides they're not solid food?
Diane Sanfilippo: No, it's just they don't have other alternatives to keep your colon from getting filled up with, obviously, stool. They don't want there to be much sticking around or possibly any kind of insoluble fiber clinging. I don't know. I mean, they just want to keep everything cleared out, I guess. Liquid food.
Liz Wolfe: I mean, I don't know a whole lot about this topic at this point, but this is something you can do fasted, isn't it?
Diane Sanfilippo: I'm sure you can do it fasted. I don't know if she has to do that for 24 hours. I don't think that would be comfortable for me. But popsicles and milkshakes, I mean, you can do any kind of liquid, pureed food that you really want, as far as I know. I wouldn't do a pureed soup with something like leafy greens, but I bet if you wanted to do a sweet potato soup or butternut squash soup, you could probably do that. I mean, milkshake? What are they telling people? I'm going to get a little crazy here, but if you want to make a sort of paleo-fied or healthier type of milkshake, take some coconut milk and some ice and a little bit of fruit. I personally don't think something seedy like strawberries is a good idea. I would probably opt more for bananas, peaches, mangos, that kind of thing that doesn't have much of that insoluble fiber in it, but I would just go with liquid food, what we generally tell people not to eat a lot of unless they have impaired eating issues, you know, if they're elderly or they're very young or they're trying to put weight on. But yeah, it's probably just a day, so make a couple of smoothies or puree up some soup. You could freeze the smoothie into popsicle molds and have a pop, and that's pretty much it. I don't think it's really a huge deal. That's kind of what I would do if for some reason I was getting a colonoscopy and was trying to kind of follow it up with this. That's what I would do.
Liz Wolfe: And of course, homemade bone broth.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, yeah, bone broth. That's not as much fun as smoothies and pops made out of smoothies, though.
Liz Wolfe: No, it's not.
Diane Sanfilippo: No.
Liz Wolfe: No, it's really not. OK, next one.
Diane Sanfilippo: This podcast really is down the tubes.
Liz Wolfe: It is. I don't know if there's anything we can do at this point.
Diane Sanfilippo: To save it?
Liz Wolfe: No.
Diane Sanfilippo: No? Go for it. Question #3.
3. Can you be a Paleo Wine-o? [36:27]
Liz Wolfe: Let's ask a question about liquor. Emily says: “Regarding wine or avoidance thereof, I've been studying the different meal plans in your Practical Paleo book, and almost every one of them says to avoid alcohol. I feel that I've given up so many food pleasures to follow a paleo lifestyle – grains, sugar, nuts, dairy, fruit, etc., but the thought of not being able to have a glass or two of wine every day is almost too much to bear. Is it really that big of a deal? Thanks.”
Diane Sanfilippo: Shoot. I guess this one's directed at me, huh?
Liz Wolfe: I guess so.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I think she just meant to say wino. Can you be a paleo wino?
Liz Wolfe: That would've worked. I see visions of Steve Martin from The Jerk come into my head shuffling along the street in his bathrobe.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, here's the deal with avoiding alcohol: The meal plans in the book are intended to be therapeutic meal plans. They're not intended to a lifestyle. They're written as a 30-day intervention. Obviously, if you have a different type of health condition, if you're dealing with a thyroid issue, if you're dealing with digestive problems, blood sugar dysregulation, any of the health conditions that I've outlined in the book, if you're following a meal plan to try and recover from one of these conditions, then I stand by what I said in the meal plan. I don't recommend that you drink while you're trying to recovery from an issue that's very specific. Alcohol is a known irritant to digestion, and it's also going to impair blood sugar regulation. When you're drinking, detoxifying alcohol is going to take precedence over some of the metabolic functions of your liver in processing carbohydrates, and so this is one of the big reasons why we know about fatty liver disease, and it's something that's typically happening in alcoholics, but there's nonalcoholic fatty liver disease when we're taking in things like too much high-fructose corn syrup. Your liver is processing all types of things, and it's processing both the alcohol and the carbohydrates. It doesn't mean that it's doing one and not the other, but detoxifying the alcohol is a very prioritized function of your liver. It's what's going to happen to kind of clear your system out.
I'm not telling people they need to give up alcohol for forever. You have to decide where you are with that. If you're on a path to healing something, if you want to lose body fat, wine every single night? Yeah, I think that's too much, a glass or two especially. And what I usually say to people who do have a glass or two of wine every single night is that I challenge their lifestyle. The same reason I challenge the lifestyle of somebody who is drinking coffee every single day or multiple cups of coffee. I know people really enjoy the taste of it. I started drinking it again myself right now, and it's definitely a lifestyle issue. I'm working on two books. It's a very isolated thing for me. I absolutely plan on not drinking it when I'm done writing these books. We've all this conversation. I didn't have any almost at all for, like, nine months. And it's something that I do love. I love the taste of it the way a lot of people love the taste of wine. I don't personally like the taste of alcohol that much, so maybe I'm just lucky in that way. I think it burns my throat, and I just am not a fan. But for purposes of social interaction, relaxation, enjoyment, etc., alcohol can be a positive thing in many people's lives; the same way for a lot of people eating more carbohydrates is really beneficial. It depends on your situation, your health status, how honest you're being with yourself about why you're drinking one or two glasses of wine every night. If it's to be some sort of unwinding escape from whatever is stressing you out all day, then deal with the stress that's happening all day. Figure that out first rather than dealing with it by drinking wine at night.
And I can tell that people are going to think that I'm being judgmental, and I'm really not. I don't really care what people do. I don't have this set feeling that drinking wine every night is unhealthy, period. It really depends on the person. For one person, it could be the worst thing that they can do. And for someone else, it could be completely innocuous for them. It might not matter at all. It might not affect their health because they're in a completely different situation. And so, saying: Is it really that big of a deal? I don't know. And if this sounds that hard to you to give up the one or two glasses, it might really be that big of a deal. And this is one of those things, too, where I don't know how old Emily is, but I know this is something Dan Kalish talks a lot about in his books on hormones, and I would bet – I didn't get through all of Sara Gottfried's book. I bet there's something in her book about this, too. But a lot of women who are dealing with menopause or premenopause tend to self-medicate hormonal imbalances with wine or alcohol at night, and it really just makes things worse. So, whatever the situation is here, I think it's just about being honest with yourself, being honest about what your goals are, and knowing how much the wine may or may not be contributing to reaching those goals. And if your goal is more to just enjoy the day and there's not some other health issue or aesthetic goal that you have that's primary, then you do what you want to do. That's your choice. But if you're trying to heal and start getting yourself out of pain and suffering, then no, I don't think wine every single night will help that process. Now I'm the mean one.
Liz Wolfe: No. I just hate to add to that because it was so good. But I did want to say… a lot of this is just the way it's framed in her mind. Like, “I've given up so many food pleasures to follow a paleo lifestyle.”
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Well, first of all, grains and sugar? Yeah, those are things that definitely don't really jive with the paleo lifestyle, grains and simple sugar, processed foods. But then nuts, dairy, and fruit? I'm not 100% sure. I mean, that kind of maybe speaks to the fact that she's trying to achieve something very specific.
Diane Sanfilippo: Fat loss, maybe.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. But for me, I have some nuts now and then. I have some dairy now and then. I have some raw goat's milk in the fridge that I have a little bit of. It's extraordinary with Hail Merrys, FYI. I eat fruit. But those are because I know how those things affect me, number one. We get really obsessed with this paleo tag because we're all used to following a set of rules, that is, a diet, but really paleo has become this movement where people understand – first of all, if we really want to talk about what's paleo, caveman would eat anything if he could. So it doesn't matter what's “paleo” and what's not. It's what's food and what's not. And like you and I have always said in the workshops, how does this food support your digestive function? It's far more than what is and what isn't “paleo.” So nuts, dairy, fruit, all these things that you have to “give up,” that's, number one, a little bit debatable. It depends on what you're actually trying to accomplish, but also this whole idea that the food pleasures are grains and sugar. If I hadn't been willing to give up grains and simple sugar, I never would've discovered bacon-wrapped dates, for one. But also it's like there this whole world of amazing food that I didn't know about four years ago, you know, when I was taking stuff out and wasn't yet adding things in that I didn't know about before. So I think a lot of this is just framed in a really kind of negative light in her mind, and maybe this is a question of changing thoughts.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and if she is doing a fat loss plan, for example, the plan is not meant to be for forever, as I said. It's meant to be an intervention. My book exists to be a little bit of a clinical gateway. It's a lot of information that I would be giving a client one-on-one, and so it's not a lifestyle book. It is about a lifestyle, right? We don't want it to be about a diet, but we were talking about Bill and Hayley's new book, Gather, and that's a lifestyle book. There's probably wine in a bunch of pictures, and that's because as part of this lifestyle where we're giving up refined foods and grain products and refined sugars as kind of this big primary crux of things, enjoying a holiday and having a glass of wine is one thing, and having it every single night as part of your kind of regular routine is another. And whether that's something that, again… It just has to be does it fit with your goals or not, and be honest with yourself about it.
Liz Wolfe: Yep.
Diane Sanfilippo: And that is all.
4. Probiotic cleansers & can you live “too clean?” [46:08]
Liz Wolfe: And that is all. All right. I'm going to skip down, actually, to the last two questions because this one is a little bit long, so I think we'll have to save it for another time. Talking about ticks for 20 minutes will do that. And we'll skip down to this question from Evan. “Can you live too clean?” And this is kind of a… I guess this is a lead-out from the last one. “Liz, in one of your blogs you mentioned SCD probiotics for cleaning your home, and in the Healthy Life Summit interview you mentioned using a probiotic hand sanitizer. With the theory of humans living in too clean of an environment, do you think these products can help us come in contact with more beneficial bacteria like our ancestors, or are they just a better alternative to chemical cleaners? You guys' podcast has made my hour commute to work more enjoyable than my job itself. Love you guys and your approach to the paleo lifestyle.”
This is a really cool question that Evan asked. Yeah, so in the blog and in some of these podcast interviews I've done about the Skintervention Guide, I've talked about probiotic housecleaning products, and yeah, I think this is a cool idea. Really I was looking at this more from the perspective of when we're just trying to eradicate germs. Oh, my gosh, germs. Don't get germs, which I think is funny, you know, when people freak out about something falling on the floor and you pick it up and eat it, and yet you walk outside in bare feet and you touch your mailbox and you touch your car handle, and it's just like you cannot rid yourself of bacteria in your environment. You just can't do it. But I think it is a bad idea to try and wipe your counters and bleach the tub and just completely eradicate because what you end up with is a breeding ground for bad bacteria to grow. One of the kinds of buzz words around it is biofilm. It's some really gnarly stuff if you Google it, but that's part of the reason I like using probiotic cleansers because no matter what, you're going to have some critters on your countertops. They might as well be the beneficials. So that's always kind of been my take on that, and that's why I recommend the things that I do. One of the companies that I really like is Probiotics In Progress, PIP, cleaners, and they also have some probiotic skin spray that I like. So yeah, I like this idea.
Diane Sanfilippo: That's interesting. I have not heard… I use some kind of natural counter spray just basically to get gunk off the counter and grease. I've never been the Purell person. I've never been the crazy, obsessive hand washer. I wash my hands after the gym mostly because they're literally dirty, like, there's black stuff on my hands from the barbells and whatever from the floor, not because I'm worried about the germs. I think that's really interesting.
Liz Wolfe: Isn't it?
Diane Sanfilippo: A probiotic cleaner as opposed to an antibacterial. Really interesting.
Liz Wolfe: And they work.
Diane Sanfilippo: Sounds good to me. I mean, I would just as soon just kind of wipe things down with water and distilled vinegar. There are some cleaning products in my house because other people have brought them here, but I don't really buy any of that stuff.
Liz Wolfe: I think just wiping stuff down, if that's what you're comfortable with, I think that's probably OK. But I think it really is that difference between using those really aggressive cleansers, and like I said, if everybody's interested, Google ‘biofilm.' It's yucky.
Diane Sanfilippo: I just wonder, too, what kind of stuff they're cleaning, and this is where food safety is important, having separate cutting boards for things. When you go to cut your veggies and whatnot, you cut your veggies first and then you can keep the same knife and same cutting board and go ahead and cut your chicken, for example, but you can't do the opposite. You can't cut raw chicken and then go ahead and cut the veggies. And I just think there's also an element of, like, if you take steps to avoid more need for cleaning things all the time, then you maybe can reduce the use of them a little bit.
Liz Wolfe: I am just wildly unsanitary as a person.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, me too. I haven't showered in, like, three days.
Liz Wolfe: You're disgusting. Well, I'm covered in diatomaceous earth and ticks, so I have to shower. Ay-yay-yay.
Diane Sanfilippo: OK.
5. Coconut oil drain clog? [50:46]
Liz Wolfe: Last one. This one's for me, too. This is from AJ. “For Liz, one of the three go-bare basic skincare ingredients, the coconut oil, is messing up my plumbing, and I mean the plumbing in my bathroom, not a metaphor for anything bodily in nature. I read your Skintervention book, and I've been trying to use more simple, safe, economical options for skincare. My skin is down with the change. My drains in my bathroom sink and tub do not seem appreciative, and in trying to avoid using harmful – to me or the environment – chemicals, I think I'm sort of limited to hot water, baking soda and vinegar, maybe some orange oil, maybe some kind of an enzyme-based drain cleaner or, gasp, either snaking or otherwise cleaning my drains myself, or hiring someone else to do it, which I assume would be either expensive or unpleasant. I also think that if I continue to use coconut oil that drain maintenance will be a bigger part of my life. I'd like to know if this is a problem for you. If so, what do you do? If not, what is your after-bath, after-sink trick for preventing the problem?”
I found this question quite interesting because I've never heard this before ever, and my first instinct was AJ is using a crap ton of oil is that much is getting into the drains. And that's great because I use what I think is a ton oil, too, but this has definitely never happened to me. And I was thinking about it, and not a whole lot of oil ends up in the drain. The way I use the oil to do the oil cleansing method and when I do oil treatments in my hair is I put enough in the palm of my hand that it just stays in the palm of my hand. I rub it in my hands, and then I put it on my face, rub that into my face, and then I'll put a little washcloth under the water and steam my face and then wipe it off. So what ends up taking on most of the oil in that scenario is the washcloth, obviously. And I will – and I say this in the Skintervention Guide also – I use Dr. Bronner's castile soap. I'll use that to clean my washcloth. And what you're doing there is you're saponifying the oil, and it should just whisk right down your drain no big deal. So it may be that there was already a drain issue that just popped up at the exact same time by coincidence. Or it might be that a ton of oil… maybe you can tighten up on that a little bit, save a little bit of supply there and use a little bit less. That's about all I've got. I mean, even when you do laundry you're saponifying the grease so it becomes flush-away-able. I don't know. Diane, does this happen to you? I know you're an oil person like I am.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. No, it doesn't. I definitely think my washcloth is taking most of the brunt of that. And I do the same. I use the Dr. Bronner's, and I use Dr. Bronner's also on my body as well, and so I don't really find any issue with it. I mean, maybe if AJ's in a really cold place and the pipes just somehow get cold more easily… or not using hot water and maybe the oil is just really solidifying for some reason. But yeah, I just don't think that there should be that much oil being used. I maybe use, like, a dime-size amount or a nickel-size amount, but then, as you said, it's melted in the palms and on my face, same kind of deal. I don't imagine chunks of oil going down the drain.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, so this is interesting. AJ, if you have any post-answer insight for us, please feel free to leave it in the comments on one of the blogs. I'm interested, very intrigued.
Diane Sanfilippo: I guess I've been sitting still long enough that Paleo Kitty has come made a home here on my lap.
Liz Wolfe: Aww, that's cute.
Diane Sanfilippo: If you sit long enough in one place, he just decides to come snuggle. But he also wants dinner.
Liz Wolfe: Hi, Mason. Well, on that note, you can go feed your cat, and I will go do a once-over for ticks… which I think my husband's kind of excited about at this point. You know, we've been married for a good couple years now. It's time to spice things up a little bit. Check me for ticks!
Diane Sanfilippo: The nightly tick check. Aww, yeah. It doesn't get much hotter than that.
Liz Wolfe: I'm terrible. All right, well, that's that, everybody. We apologize profusely for this podcast. We're so excited to talk to you guys again because I missed you last week, Diane. It was me and Kendall, and it was fun, but I'm glad that you’re back.
Diane Sanfilippo: I listened. It was great. It was fun to listen in for a change.
Liz Wolfe: Kendall rocks. Next week you'll be on the cruise, so I will likely be doing another interview of some sort. We'll keep that a secret for now. I've got some ideas. But we will be back again one day after the cruise with more questions. Until then, you can find Diane at BalancedBites.com, and you can find me, Liz, at CaveGirlEats.com. Thanks for listening! We'll talk to you later.
Diane & Liz